Standard Block - Maximum Reliable Power

Teamjelly · Post by **Teamjelly** » Sat Aug 30, 2014 10:25 pm

With four spare BP engines lying around - I figured I'd test the maximum reliable power from a stock BP block.
Been meaning to do this for a while - but as usual work commitments prevail.
But had a spare few hours this morning - so fitted a boost solenoid and wired it up to the ECU in the old Turbo MX5, and cranked the boost up to a steady 20 psi (from 14)
The results were impressive, with a steady 302-307hp at the wheels, run after run
The best was 313, but with very mild detonation at the peak of the torque curve, so 306 was the limit on a safe tune.
With over 20 dyno pulls to 200k, and an afternoon of abusing it (and a whole tank of gas) The motor seems as good as ever.
Although the next trackday will be the true test
Does anyone know how far anyone has pushed the BP block (reliably)?
The Mercans quote some silly figures but they're about as honest as Winnie P
Have attached dynosheet as bragging rights.

evel · Post by **evel** » Sat Aug 30, 2014 11:54 pm

This shall be a interesting test, I look forward to the track day results. Are you planning on whipping the head off after to see how everythings looks?

CordedBowl · Post by **CordedBowl** » Sun Aug 31, 2014 12:06 am

Would bringing the rev limit down a bit increase life expectancy?

Keen as to see how she performs on a track day (and hopefully many more to come!)

Teamjelly · Post by **Teamjelly** » Sun Aug 31, 2014 8:32 am

Yeah, Have dropped the Rev limiter to 7000, no point revving it past that as the power is already dropping off.
I'll wait till something goes wrong before taking the head off and having a look inside
Am building a fully forged motor at the moment, with much lower compression, so thought this would be a good test of the stock BP engine durability.

Post by **jif** » Sun Aug 31, 2014 8:34 am

out of curiousity, what size turbo are talking about here?Â

On 31 August 2014 08:32, Teamjelly <horsepower@mx5forum.co.nz (horsepower@mx5forum.co.nz)> wrote:

Yeah, Have dropped the Rev limiter to 7000, no point revving it past that as the power is already dropping off.
I'll wait till something goes wrong before taking the head off and having a look inside
Am building a fully forged motor at the moment, with much lower compression, so thought this would be a good test of the stock BP engine durability.Â Â :)

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Teamjelly · Post by **Teamjelly** » Sun Aug 31, 2014 8:59 am

TD05 16G
Excellent turbo, comes on boost at only 1800 rpm, and flows over 350hp
Dirt cheap too, cost me $320 brandnew landed in NZ
Is a Chinese one, so I was suspect of it's durability on high boost
But it's been running 14psi for over a year, done well over 10,000k, about 12 trackdays, and it's still in as good condition when new.
Not running a blowoff valve either.
Think the Chinese have got the reliability issues with their turbos sorted
Might go to the 20G on the forged motor though

REDBEN · Post by **REDBEN** » Sun Aug 31, 2014 1:42 pm

If the Stock BP can do 305Hp then my worked BP should be good for 500Hpish I guess

Skilfil · Post by **Skilfil** » Mon Sep 01, 2014 1:13 pm

Nice, I'll be interested to see how long this lasts.

Growler · Post by **Growler** » Mon Sep 01, 2014 1:21 pm

I did read an article some years ago that a drag team were getting 616Hp using a stock block with forged internals, but a stock crank...not too sure how long they lasted however...

evel · Post by **evel** » Tue Sep 02, 2014 5:09 pm

^^^ Forum adviser.. ant never seen that before

Teamjelly · Post by **Teamjelly** » Tue Sep 02, 2014 5:24 pm

I think the rod bearings will the limiting factor in the BP engine
Compared to something like the 4G63 they're a lot narrower, which increases the load per square inch
I know the Mazda Rally team were having the same issue when running 25+ psi
Changing the bearings per session.
I'd say 450hp at the engine is about the factor for reliability on a forged motor unless serious money is spent on a high psi dry sump setup
But will have conclusive results by the end of the year.
With a Td05 20G running 25 psi on fully forged motor, we'll see what the BP motor is capable of.
Just hope the 6 speed and Torsen LSD is up to it as well

Skilfil · Post by **Skilfil** » Wed Sep 03, 2014 11:23 am

Hmm if I remember right, there was a guy in the North Shore running an NB with 300 atw who broke a few 6 speeds.

But each case comes down to the driver too, I have a feeling some people are ruthless with their cars which will cause them to break.

Isn't something like the 01-02 5spd box meant to be the strongest?

Growler · Post by **Growler** » Wed Sep 03, 2014 2:26 pm

I'm still looking for the article...but this is the car. It looks like they are getting 800hp now?

http://www.globalnetspace.com/miata/

Teamjelly · Post by **Teamjelly** » Wed Sep 03, 2014 2:31 pm

Damn that's some serious power.
Without the wheelie bars and wing, it looks almost stock
Looks like they're still using the standard coils too.

marcellarius · Post by **marcellarius** » Wed Sep 03, 2014 3:01 pm

I don't recall the Miata having a rear solid axle. Maybe that was an option in the American market.

bgg846 · Post by **bgg846** » Sat Oct 04, 2014 9:39 am

How is this going for you teamjelly? Still running without issues?

Teamjelly · Post by **Teamjelly** » Sat Oct 04, 2014 11:04 am

Yeah
Oddly enough it's still running mint
Got a real slight miss in the top end at 20psi
Got some Kawasaki ZR11R Coil on plugs to fit, so that should sort it
Those motorbike coils are lightyears ahead of cars
They didn't fit properly, as they didn't connect to the sparkplug, so I pulled it to bits to have a look
As you have to unscrew the top of the sparkplug, so the thread is showing and the coil clips onto there
What a great idea! no chance of any spark loss, or bad connection.
Planned to go to Hampton today, but it's raining, and my new coilovers arrived yesterday, but should be there on the 18th to try it out

Skilfil · Post by **Skilfil** » Sat Oct 04, 2014 1:20 pm

This pleases me

I'm hoping to run 250 atw in the future, thats a year or two away though since it still puts a smile on my face at "low" boost.

mattapo · Post by **mattapo** » Sun Oct 05, 2014 10:26 am

Have you thought about adding ethanol, with fuel flex sensors being so cheap now and the ms can do it, well the diy pnp could. I have just changed to a link and have flex setup, goes in for tuning soon and I'm hoping for somewhere round the 300 mark on e85.
As an example mcm just put their suby on ethanol, I may have. My figures out a bit but they had about 211 kW atw then added e85, 2 degrees more timing and pulled 239 kW atw.
So going off that. I'm running 225 now but fueling held us back and it was on 95.
250-275 seam to be commonly tuned figures on the bp.
I don't see why a reliably 300 shouldn't be to much of a push with ethanol.

jtsoldier · Post by **jtsoldier** » Sun Oct 05, 2014 8:38 pm

how widespread is E85 in NZ? It's certainly not available at any commercial pump I've seen...

Teamjelly · Post by **Teamjelly** » Sun Oct 05, 2014 11:03 pm

Yeah - until we can get a good supply of E85 at the pumps I don't think there's any real need to start looking at it as an option.

Hopefully one of the suppliers ups there game and makes it a readily available fuel

Hey Mattapo, any reason why you decide to change to a different ECU for the setup? I would have thought the MS2 Pnp would be able to do everything you'd ask of it on the Bp engine - just curious

mattapo · Post by **mattapo** » Mon Oct 06, 2014 6:52 pm

No speed input. I have massive traction issues and want to control boost via speed and gear. The mspnp was great.

Teamjelly · Post by **Teamjelly** » Tue Oct 07, 2014 12:00 pm

Massive traction issues
I can't understand why

Glad to hear the Exocet is still going well

evel · Post by **evel** » Tue Oct 07, 2014 5:22 pm

Teamjelly wrote:Hopefully one of the suppliers ups there game and makes it a readily available fuel

Gull's sorta doing something about it. I believe the new gas station they opened outside Hampton Downs sells E85 and theres another in the Dury/Pukekohe area. Or you can buy it by the drum.

Gull Force 10 is more available and is E10.

mattapo · Post by **mattapo** » Tue Oct 07, 2014 10:08 pm

It you can buy ethanol by the drum and mix your own. That's what I will probably do