NA/TURBO/SUPERCHARGE How much did you spend?

[Furai]

So everyone keeps telling me you wont get any power from NA and it will cost heaps, so I had alook into it and the 1.6 with ITBsand new injectors and tune yields a 50% power increase to 120WHP.

I worked out cost of parts with brand new pieces(So you could save a lot by using 4AGE ITBs or bike ones which would be much cheaper than the $1500 Jenvey ones.) came to a touch under $3500 shipped.

So that begs the question, how much did you spend and how much did you get?

[Angreal]

Then you get the other problems like fueling etc. and wanting to upgrade everything else

2k US for the FFS

[Keith Jones]

I'm not sure whether you are asking about NA costs, but as a reference point, when we turbo'd my son's car last year we paid around $2000 to get 165rwhp.
That cost covered TD04 turbo, exhaust manifold, downpipe and 2.5inch stainless exhaust system, injectors, intercooler and piping, pod inlet, BOV and Megasquirt.

[Snapfrozen]

I'm not sure whether you are asking about NA costs, but as a reference point, when we turbo'd my son's car last year we paid around $2000 to get 165rwhp.
That cost covered TD04 turbo, exhaust manifold, downpipe and 2.5inch stainless exhaust system, injectors, intercooler and piping, pod inlet, BOV and Megasquirt.

This si what I was trying to explain to you, and then the last 1.5k you can use for better brakes/drivetrain/gearing/bigger turbo/perming machine

[Furai]

Then you get the other problems like fueling etc. and wanting to upgrade everything else

2k US for the FFS

Hence the new injectors and computer

I'm not sure whether you are asking about NA costs, but as a reference point, when we turbo'd my son's car last year we paid around $2000 to get 165rwhp.
That cost covered TD04 turbo, exhaust manifold, downpipe and 2.5inch stainless exhaust system, injectors, intercooler and piping, pod inlet, BOV and Megasquirt.

Im not asking about NA costs but I worked that figure out using all brand new parts and Jenvey ITBs($1500) you could easily shave a grand off that figure with using other ITBs and more by going for some second hand parts as Im guessing you didnt buy all of that kit new?

This si what I was trying to explain to you, and then the last 1.5k you can use for better brakes/drivetrain/gearing/bigger turbo/perming machine

Im not trying to say its better value, I just want to see the difference as it does not seem to be as big as you say. As I said those are all brand new top quality parts and I have put a bit of leeway in there as nothing ever goes to plan.

[Angreal]

although I should be able to get in the low 200s whp but for now I'm still getting around to installing/setting up/procrastinating/deciding... I think my first setup will be 160hp just so I can keep it simple and get a cert sooner rather than later

[Skilfil]

Don't forget how driveable a car should/can be. e.g a 200 HP 1.6 Turbo will be much easier to drive on the street and reliable than a 200 HP 1.6 N/A.

And I've heard countless N/A owners express regret at how much they poured into it, and how they get sick of when a turbo with half the cost just sails past on the track.

Imo only go for it, if you're an absolute fanatic for tuned N/A engines.

[Snapfrozen]

And don't mind a high strung engine. My civic would be lapping cars making almost 1.5x my NA whp, and purely because they would break down every race meet

[Furai]

Im not racing and Im not after huge figures, shoot the 80WHP(If Im lucky) that I have at the moment is nearly enough. Im not doing any race or super competitive stuff and heck my car has won a few Gymkhanas with the stock engine setup.

I will go for it in time, first thing I will do is buy a cheap low Km engine from Japan.

I was just interested in others setups to be honest, Im not justifying anything or saying its better I just wanted to see how far in I would be going.

Im definatly not aiming for 200HP I would be happy with 120WHP

[WideOpenThrottle]

And dont forget that 120hp will end up being too little in no time so after pouring all the money & time into it you then cant easily get realistic power unless you then turbo or SC.

If you build a Turbo or SC set-up first time round that is mild on HP then it should be really reliable and you are also well on the way to power up-grades when you want even more power [and it will happen]!

The good thing maybe with ITB's is not having to cert for road use as its automatic for Turbo/SC so cost saving there.

[Furai]

And dont forget that 120hp will end up being too little in no time so after pouring all the money & time into it you then cant easily get realistic power unless you then turbo or SC.

If you build a Turbo or SC set-up first time round that is mild on HP then it should be really reliable and you are also well on the way to power up-grades when you want even more power [and it will happen]!

The good thing maybe with ITB's is not having to cert for road use as its automatic for Turbo/SC so cost saving there.

Dont worry Im crazy and wont get bored even with low power, Im planning for the future as I want to have the car(And Driver) ready before adding power.

[Snapfrozen]

What is it that you actually want the power for? Because you'll probably find all the usable power will be above 5k RPM

[Bwarp]

If i was gonna build an NA engine, i wouldn't give a shit about power outputs. Just put ITB's on and listen to the doooorts.

B6 engine is just another 4AGE, imo. and enough people N/A build their 4AGE's so why not do it to a B6. /naiive

ITB'd engines sound 10947405845859x better than vrmmmmm psssshhhhh.

[Furai]

^This man is correct Haha

ITBs get you torque down low and response, not as much torq as FI but power isnt everything.

[SLYDIT]

the b6 has such poor flow characteristics, i dont know why youd bother..the b6 certainly aint no honda (even non vtecs flow better than the b6 head.) to top it all off the b6 has over engineered rods and crank and pistons making them too heavy for decent revs that youd need to make good NA HP..and then theres cams to think about.

i think way back in 2006 i spent about 2500 on my turbo system not including clutch.

[siren676]

Will be following this thread to see what sort of results people have been getting for what sort of price.
Still cant make my mind up between turbo or supercharger

[sprsta]

My initial turbo build was about $1200 inc FMLink ECU and a set of seond hand 380cc injectors
however i did make almost all of the pieces needed to make it work myself
plus $900 in cert and the first dyno tune

the first dyno run it made 203ps at the rear wheels, could have made more but the injectors got over 90%dc going any higher

after that i slowly spent around $2000 in upgrades to parts of the car around the setup but the bare bones remained the same

i got my own WBO2 and did my own tuning from then on so dont have any more dyno runs but the power runs that DataLog Lab does (supposedly pretty accurate) usually ended in the 240hp region

[brownie]

the b6 has such poor flow characteristics, i dont know why youd bother..the b6 certainly aint no honda (even non vtecs flow better than the b6 head.) to top it all off the b6 has over engineered rods and crank and pistons making them too heavy for decent revs that youd need to make good NA HP..and then theres cams to think about.

i think way back in 2006 i spent about 2500 on my turbo system not including clutch.

Dunno what you call descent rev's,But with Chrome molly flywheel and 2 and 1/2 "exhaust and tweaked ECU i can get to 8000rpm
Wouldn't do all the time though on a 180km engine but feels good.
Like the idea of N/A myself for a street driver or a bit of Gymkhana type stuff.
Turbo for more fast track work.
I always think of them as spirited fun car to drive that won't try to kill you with moderate driver skill
Big horsepower on a chassis never designed for descent horsepower will
end in tears eventually,unless you are a good driver (be honest)

My 10 cents worth anyway

[Mad Kiwi]

BUT, Furai IS a good driver. He obviousley underates himself.

Coming from the motorcycle world there is/was a huge debate on 2 stroke versus 4 stroke. light versus heavy, revs/power v torque/power.

I was a huge 2 stroke proponant in road racing (250 production) and since switching to Motocross have conceded that 4st is the better option.

My heart says 2 stroke but performance and cost not to mention results are lead by the 4st.

Whats the relationsip?......almost exactly the same as NA v Boosted. I would much rather have an NA engine (light, revvy etc) but results, cost and suitability (the engine IS specc'd for boost as standard NOT NA) all point to boosted being the way to go in my opinion (sadly).

The same happens to bikes as cars re the 2st v 4st and NA v Boosted in MX5 land. Driveability and reliability all suffer. The same thing I found with rotaries (effectively a 2st four stroke...)

This from personal experiance and religuosly studying the forums and following up guys experiances.

Almost any standard or "breathed" on Honda or Toyota engine will KILL a modified NA MX5 engine. So I just can't see the point.

One thing I have learned in life is to play to strengths, trying to change a fundamentally poor or incorect thing very rarely works (and is often expensive in the process)...the MX5 engines are from a heavy and succesfull turbo heritage, why not play to this strength?

Just my opinion though.

Furai, whatever you do you will do it well I am sure.

[Angreal]

^This man is correct Haha

ITBs get you torque down low and response, not as much torq as FI but power isnt everything.

Supercharger I'll get one of those stupid annoying whines like a missus when i plant the foot :p

[siren676]

^This man is correct Haha

ITBs get you torque down low and response, not as much torq as FI but power isnt everything.

Supercharger I'll get one of those stupid annoying whines like a missus when i plant the foot :p

A supercharger is cheaper to run than a missus as well

Which supercharger kit did you go with in the end?

[Angreal]

^This man is correct Haha

ITBs get you torque down low and response, not as much torq as FI but power isnt everything.

Supercharger I'll get one of those stupid annoying whines like a missus when i plant the foot :p

A supercharger is cheaper to run than a missus as well

Which supercharger kit did you go with in the end?

The expensive ffs option

[Furai]

BUT, Furai IS a good driver. He obviousley underates himself.

Coming from the motorcycle world there is/was a huge debate on 2 stroke versus 4 stroke. light versus heavy, revs/power v torque/power.

I was a huge 2 stroke proponant in road racing (250 production) and since switching to Motocross have conceded that 4st is the better option.

My heart says 2 stroke but performance and cost not to mention results are lead by the 4st.

Whats the relationsip?......almost exactly the same as NA v Boosted. I would much rather have an NA engine (light, revvy etc) but results, cost and suitability (the engine IS specc'd for boost as standard NOT NA) all point to boosted being the way to go in my opinion (sadly).

The same happens to bikes as cars re the 2st v 4st and NA v Boosted in MX5 land. Driveability and reliability all suffer. The same thing I found with rotaries (effectively a 2st four stroke...)

This from personal experiance and religuosly studying the forums and following up guys experiances.

Almost any standard or "breathed" on Honda or Toyota engine will KILL a modified NA MX5 engine. So I just can't see the point.

One thing I have learned in life is to play to strengths, trying to change a fundamentally poor or incorect thing very rarely works (and is often expensive in the process)...the MX5 engines are from a heavy and succesfull turbo heritage, why not play to this strength?

Just my opinion though.

Furai, whatever you do you will do it well I am sure.

Thanks for the kind comments, Im still learning and haven't even come close to the full potential of my car.

What you are saying is quite correct, the reason Im quite fixed on NA is more the Balance and response. I am forever seeing videos of NA cars with less power than a Turbo version going just as if not more quickly.

This balance and response is quite vital in a chassis like the Roadster, or for me I feel it is.

This thread isn't supposed to be an NA vs Turbo battle though I was just interested in the cost of everyone's setups, but then again competitive human nature always kicks in

[Joe]

I'm not sure whether you are asking about NA costs, but as a reference point, when we turbo'd my son's car last year we paid around $2000 to get 165rwhp.
That cost covered TD04 turbo, exhaust manifold, downpipe and 2.5inch stainless exhaust system, injectors, intercooler and piping, pod inlet, BOV and Megasquirt.

Hello, first post here, and I'm glad I saw this thread.

I was just about to buy a turbo kit from the US, but your builds seem alot cheaper, even excluding exchange rate and shipping. Do you source the parts locally?

I might need to re-think my plans, save a few bucks on the turbo to spend elsewhere on the car!

[Donovan]

Go NA, just use a 13B bridgeport, yeeehaa.