My DIY Turbo build

last_resort14 · Post by **last_resort14** » Fri Jan 09, 2009 7:37 pm

Hey everyone,
My names Luke, i watch a read these forums a lot since ive got my mx5 and have noticed that in these forums there is no Build threads as there are in other car forums, basically i like reading what people have done and how they have done it so i thought i would give it a go myself,
also it will give me a place to ask for help and get answers to problems i might come across,

This is basically going to be related to doing the DIY turbo setup on my car.

so here goes

Luke

last_resort14 · Post by **last_resort14** » Fri Jan 09, 2009 7:42 pm

OK so first i will introduce my car, Its a 1990 NA6 which is basically stock except for being lowered on BC adjustable suspension and 15x8 Alloys

heres a photo

ok, never mind i have to post a few more times before i can do photos

last_resort14 · Post by **last_resort14** » Fri Jan 09, 2009 7:43 pm

ok, one more post

last_resort14 · Post by **last_resort14** » Fri Jan 09, 2009 7:44 pm

last_resort14 · Post by **last_resort14** » Fri Jan 09, 2009 8:39 pm

ok
So here is what ive done at this stage, basically just dismantled everything getting ready for the conversion

Sorry about the crap camera phone photos, i will use a proper camera from now on when i can,

Since removing all of the air con and cooling system i have heaps of room in the front of the engine for my intercooler and new radiator,

The plan is to make up a manifold like the one SLYDIT has, and most probably use a td04 turbo.

I have a setup planned for my new radiator and intercooler to help simplify my intercooler piping which i will show tomorrow

Luke

WideOpenThrottle · Post by **WideOpenThrottle** » Sat Jan 10, 2009 9:22 am

Hi Luke, i will be following your conversion with interest as i have my 89Na with everything stripped out of the engine bay [motor, gearbox,wiring.radiator,lights,guards,bumper,etc,etc.Hoping to drop in a 323GTI 1600 turbo if not too difficult otherwise i shall be doing something similar to you.All the best!

last_resort14 · Post by **last_resort14** » Sat Jan 10, 2009 9:13 pm

Hey, thanks for that, it will be good to have somebody watching,lol

ok, so heres my new purchases

I have noticed how complex most people have had to make their intercooler piping, due to keeping the full size radiator, the raditaor i have brought here is a 60mm thick aftermarket item for a honda integra,

These photos show how i intend to mount the radiator and intercooler to allow the pipes from the turbo and to throttle body as simple as i can

Also i have a question that somebody may know the answer to,
next week i will be looking to purchase a turbo and am planning to try to find a TD04 from a 1800cc mitsi GSR or Libero as i believe itll be about the right size, Does anyone know if the TD04 from the subaru WRX has the same size internals etc?

cheers

Luke

Post by **jif** » Sat Jan 10, 2009 10:02 pm

hi Luke

always good to see a plan coming together

I've seen some other builds that put the (civic sized) radiator and intercooler next to each other, which would give an unimpeded flow to both and easy plumbing as well. One guy has even done a v-mount, but thats pretty out there! Looks like you'll be mounting your IC slightly lower than the radiator to clear that bar just above the rad (?)

If you're looking at either a GSR or WRX turbo, I suggest going for the latter as there are *much* more upgrade options further down the road. Or if you're fabbing from scratch just get the best turbo you can so that you only need to do it once

eg the vf38 turbo is twin-scroll , ballbearing, Titanium (lightweight) turbine and does at least 280hp while spooling up early and fast

keep us posted!

-Jeff

last_resort14 · Post by **last_resort14** » Sun Jan 11, 2009 12:10 pm

Cheers for that Jeff

my only concern with the wrx turbo was that as it was intended for a 2000cc motor that it would spool up too late, but if it will be ok that opens up quite a few more turbos,

and yes you're right, the intercooler will be underneath the radiator bar right up against the bonnet latch, the intercooler is 610mm wide so it will fill the whole gap from headlight to headlight

the radiator will be behind that and yes, slightly higher as it is taller.

Luke

poison · Post by **poison** » Sun Jan 11, 2009 12:46 pm

I would have thought the Titanium turbo would be much lighter so it should spool earlier. But you should just buy my TD04 and Greddy manifold off me

PM me.

If the IC is too large you'll get more lag and slower initial boost, that's the only downside. I have quite a big IC on mine and wonder if it's partly responsible for boost drop off at higher revs. I hit 12PSi then it tapers off to about 9 by the red line. Mine is a T25 being about the same size as a TD04.

I think the way you are going regarding layout is a brilliant idea. The IC piping is the worst part of an install and the hardest to do from home.

kiwicon · Post by **kiwicon** » Mon Jan 12, 2009 10:46 am

here is a small pic of my setup, I can take closer pics of the IC routing if you want

WideOpenThrottle · Post by **WideOpenThrottle** » Mon Jan 12, 2009 2:50 pm

Still watching with interest.My son & i have just installed a larger radiator plus an intercooler on his Skyline-turbo is out & getting an upgrade as well as injectors,ecu.fuelpump,reulator,3inch straight thru exhaust plus tuning-all the things i shall be doing to my Mx[& MORE]!Happy modifying!!

SLYDIT · Post by **SLYDIT** » Mon Jan 12, 2009 4:16 pm

The wrx turbo is a TDO4 13L which is a fairly small turbo and is a bit different to "most " turbos for 2 liter cars.

It is designed to be very efficient at high boost levels for a relitively low flow rates, this allows the subaru engineers to have a turbo that has great response for a four wheel drive car and they make up the top end by pushing lots of boost through it (13psi versus the 8 or so usual). This also means that it has a fairly narrow window of good efficiency than others.

For example the stock Greedy turbo is a TD04 15g and has a bigger compressor wheel than the wrx one, making it flow high amounts of air for relitivly low boost levels. this is great for a turbo conversion like ours.

the wrx turbo will do the job but you may have to crank the boost on it to get it to see results that other low boost/high flow turbos such as garret T28, or subaru VF10 from the earlier legacy like i have.

Having said that the wrx turbos are CHEAP as they are often changed and are less desirable second hand than a garret turbo.

Good luck!

Post by **jif** » Mon Jan 12, 2009 5:50 pm

2009/1/11 last_resort14 <horsepower@mx5forum.co.nz (horsepower@mx5forum.co.nz)>

my only concern with the wrx turbo was that as it was intended for a 2000cc motor that it would spool up too late, but if it will be ok that opens up quite a few more turbos,

yeah, but you'll have higher compression and shorter header tubes (hopefully!) to make up for it. FWIW, the guy who had a VF22 (the really big STi turbo) on a NA6 was getting it spooled up before 4k rpm

last_resort14 · Post by **last_resort14** » Mon Jan 12, 2009 6:43 pm

Thanks for that everyone,

I am keeping options open for more turbo's now and will look more into it before purchasing one,

I have also PM'd poison about his greddy manifold and TD04 as it would be a good starting point,

Luke

WideOpenThrottle · Post by **WideOpenThrottle** » Mon Jan 12, 2009 7:21 pm

Talking of Turbo's-does anyone know if my 323 GTI turbo is worth putting on my NA6?

SLYDIT · Post by **SLYDIT** » Mon Jan 12, 2009 9:36 pm

GTI turbo?

Dont you mean GTX?

The GTX turbo is a IHI VJ20 turbo and is again actually quite small as it was designed to give lots of boost at low rpm to make the most of the 4wd system, Again it will work (isnt that what Jif runs?) but putting a VF10 compressor and turbine into the GTX turbine housing is the best choice. Small turbos will get you there but at a higher boost level.Higher boost equals more heat which equals less power than optimal.

Thw wrx turbo is the best of the small 4WD turbos to use as it does have that optimised efficiency in the compressor maps that the others dont have.

Post by **jif** » Mon Jan 12, 2009 10:27 pm

2009/1/12 whitelightning <horsepower@mx5forum.co.nz (horsepower@mx5forum.co.nz)>

Talking of Turbo's-does anyone know if my 323 GTI turbo is worth putting on my NA6?

if you mean the vj20 it's not bad, tho not a drop in deal. Manifold and downpipe need to be fabbed up, and its maxed out at about 200 rwhp (a bit less, probably) which is still freaky

but for the trouble you go to you can get a bigger bang for your buck! something like a vf23 or vf38 is great value...

WideOpenThrottle · Post by **WideOpenThrottle** » Tue Jan 13, 2009 9:18 am

Well, as best as i can remember, the car was a front wheel drive Mazda 323 GTI which had a 1600 twincam turbo motor.I took out the motor & gearbox which i now have sitting in my garage.I shall look to see if there are any identification marks on them.I may yet sell the GTI? motor & turbo if their is a better route to take.I would have thought any turbo would need a turbo exhaust manifold on a non turbo motor?

WideOpenThrottle · Post by **WideOpenThrottle** » Tue Jan 13, 2009 9:48 am

The turbo off this GTI? engine is a Turbospec VJ13 8801. I will be seeing Steve at MotorSport Engineering soon so will run it past him & report back.

WideOpenThrottle · Post by **WideOpenThrottle** » Thu Jan 15, 2009 3:24 pm

Apparently Mazda 323 GTI's were around in 1989 give or take a few years.They were front wheel drive and 1600 twin cam turbo and not easily compatible with MX5's.The turbo hopefully! will be fitted to my next motor.Onwards & upwards!

last_resort14 · Post by **last_resort14** » Thu Jan 15, 2009 5:51 pm

hey everyone

i havent done much this week as im saving all my money to buy a turbo and maybe manifold if i buy poisons ones, as well as i have my rates bill due next week so that slows things a bit too,

anyway, i have done more things that i can do without having to spend any money, and thats ripping things out,
i have decided to remove my power steering now so all of that has come out and i am going to de-power the power steering rack like the tutorial on the flyinmiata site (http://www.flyinmiata.com/tech/depower.php?x=1)

Ive also decided i will do a little bit of wire tucking while ive got everything apart and just cleaning of the engine bay etc,

i want to tidy up the rocker cover and intake manifold a bit too and toyed with the idea of painting or polishing them, i will take them off tomorrow and sand blast them and see how the come up.then decide what to do with them, any suggestions?

also, i am going to take my sump off to weld on a fitting for my oil drain and was wondering where exactly to do this, so i did some research and only found this,
http://www.rev2red.com/images/cars/faq/oilports.jpg
now should i put the fitting where the big red cross is or should i copy where he has put it? or is there somewhere else i should put it?

Cheers

Luke

poison · Post by **poison** » Thu Jan 15, 2009 9:32 pm

Hi Luke, everything you need to know and much much more is here
http://www.miataturbo.net/forum/t4288/

And for EVERYONE search the archives....... so many things are in there

Miatamad did a good post once on oil tap.

http://www.mx5forum.co.nz/viewtopic.php?p=38509#38509

SLYDIT · Post by **SLYDIT** » Thu Jan 15, 2009 9:36 pm

get your turbo manifold made up and your turbo mounted before you do the sump.

The drain line needs to be nice and smooth with no kinks etc.
Once you have the turbo on you can get a feel for where it needs to be.

You dont have to weld it on either. Most people just drill and tap the sump and then use "JB weld" or loctite 3805 to seal it and lock it in place.

I used a goodyear 5/8" Drain hose and a (3/8" ??) BSP fitting into the sump. Its been in there for 3 years now and i havent had to touch it since the day i put it on.

the below pics i saved from the net showing where it normally goes. As you can see in the second pic, you have to be careful of the oil pick up line and scavenge plate. The further back you go the more careful you have to be.

poison · Post by **poison** » Thu Jan 15, 2009 9:45 pm

last_resort14 wrote:i want to tidy up the rocker cover and intake manifold a bit too and toyed with the idea of painting or polishing them, i will take them off tomorrow and sand blast them and see how the come up.then decide what to do with them, any suggestions?

A: DON'T SAND BLAST!!!!! them, the alloy is soft and will get messed up. Get them polished, not as expensive as you think and looks soooo good....