(FEH) Greddy kit installed and running.

[Habanero666]

Got my hands on a Greddy kit, rebuilt the engine with forced induction in mind, slapped it all together and hey presto!...... a not so sedate little contraption that sucks small creatures and wild life off the sides off the road and turns em into confetti!

Not quite

Actually the standard kit is average,I got the one with the little black box enrichment device...wanted the FPR kit....threw toys out of cot....one coming from usa to japan to nz!

Running stock turbo kit, 2.25" exhaust, 5 deg btdc on 5 psi, modified mounting hardware, bosch motorsport fuel pump (intended for FPR and 7 psi boost), got an Intercooler just need to plumb it up.

Question 1 )Hey slydit , where did you get the piping in the picture done??

Question 2 ) What is the most economical way to retard ignition for boost onset? anyone got something they wish to part with?

At the mo i am just using a knocklink to monitor the " Burning ".

[jif]

congrats on joining the darkside ... a full effort Greddy setup can go up to ~250 whp or so, sounds like you're at 130-180 now...

so there's a few options to control pre-ignition/detonation ...
- add intercooler
- add water injection
- add Bipes box about $200 US
- add megasquirt / link / etc ecu ( no need for FPR or other band-aids)
- add bigger injectors ... if you're on the stock ones there's not much headroom there, some danger of going lean and melting things :\

you've seen this? http://www.miataturbo.net/forum/showthread.php?t=4288

The setup on my '96 has a GTX VJ20 turbo, smallish intercooler, rx7 550cc injectors, MiataLink ECU, AEM wideband o2 (very useful !), ACT HD clutch, stock fuel pump, transmission, differential, brakes. And other stuff not relevant here. Fast, reliable, not-cheap

[Habanero666]

Hi there Jif,

Yep I have seen the link you offered thanks, I'm a member of that forum aswell. (Unfortunatley) I have not a visa for which to empty my savings account with,so US of A purchases are a bit tricky.

Yes Sir,the Darkside is the place to be! I have driven lots of different 'beasts' over the years but I think I have discovered the 'Holy Grail!' in owning an Mx5.

Your car sounds like a weapon!! How many psi boost have you got up it?

I just went for a run after I plumbed in a bosch motorport CBV to 'tame' the goofy sounding compressor surge, when you lift off of the loud pedal.... stunning and quiet too!

[SLYDIT]

QUESTION 1)
I custom made my I/C pipes from scratch, and tig welded them in the workshop at work..many hours of cutting and measuring for that perfect fit with no rubbing on other stuff, it consists of 2" form turbo to I/c and then 2.5" from I/C to the throttle body.

I ordered the silicon couplers from ATP turbo in the states..i ordered more than i needed and it worked out about the same as if i had bought in NZ, except i got black as you can only get that horrible blue stuff in NZ.

QUESTION 2)
To be honest, if you get a decent intercooler such as a small repco or smilar, you could run the stock timing as long as you have a good free flow exhaust and 98 octane gas.the trick is to keep the restrictions low...restrictions cause heat...heat causes detonation.

[Habanero666]

I have got an intercooler from a nissan 2l turbo.

[Habanero666]

Ok, that is a piece of art work you created there! I see you have got the ratio for pipe sizing correct, which is always a good move! Yep silicon couplers are gold plated alright! I think I recall reading about your purchase somewhere of those..Anyway, I will try reproduce something to that order at my workshop....wish me luck and patience!

Question : I will ask you this as I think you will be an expert on these cars by now... What do you think is the upper level of boost I can run without some sort of retard device with the B6ZE engine?

That is, with a good fuel system set up, efficient intercooler and free flow exhaust? Just a ball park figure will do.

I have done a substantial amount of port work and development to the 'squish' area of the combustion chamber and pistons.

(The best thing to do with these engines, when you have the head off is to simply remove all the sharp edges and anywhere that is likley to heat up and cause pre ignition in the combustion chamber! I bet you have done this already???

If you haven't, here are some things to look for:

Unused sparkplug threads, casting defects, roughness etc, sharp turns in the pent-roof combustion chamber....list goes on.

Best gain in CFM was 'Unshrouding' the valves (area between the valve seats outer edges and the cylinder bore) you can increase flow MASSIVELY!! This is acheived by a huge increase in the valve 'curtain' area; the higher this percentage, the higher the flow, the more power!!!

The build up of carbon around the very top of the cylinder bore where the piston rings don't travel and scrape is also a good place to clean up and slight deburring of the cylinder bore edge is good to do).

so..... an Idea of safe boost would be helpful.

[Habanero666]

I always run the best fuel to be safe! and Mobil 8000 seems to be the best so far.... but I am 'all ears' if anyone can suggest something better.

[Growler]

A friend of mine has the FM2 kit from the States. I believe he is running around 12psi with stock internals, bigger injectors (From memory), intercooler, ECU etc. He runs good fuel and oil and to date he hasn't had any issues.

Growler.

[Habanero666]

I have just got the the boost reaching and holding at 5.5psi on 5 deg timing retard off standard base timing, without touching the boost signal to the wastegate actuator.
This was done by die grinding the welding dags off the inside of the exhaust dump pipe flanges!

This has freed up more flow out the primary pipe.

Slydit is right in respect to the fact of reducing heat you reduce pre-ignition/ detonation.

I have noticed a wee bit of a difference in power, I thought it best to have the engine well sorted and not have to rely on boost too much for power increases and every little thing I tidy up reflects in the output.

I will get it dynoed after the IC install.

Here is the engine bay with cold air intake (vacuum megaphone! )
and Bosch porsche CBV plumb back system

[jif]

The miataturbo (mt) water-injection (WI) guys reckon you can run stock timing up to 8psi with no-IC and WI !!

So in your case it may be worth trying to run an IC and WI, then slowly advance your timing back to normal. But that timing setup gives me the willies to be honest! At least get a Bipes box, they're good value.

Here's what "eunos1800" had to say
------------------
I tried running ICless, but found that at around 11psi i either had to start pulling timing or i was adding so much water it fooooked the performance.

At 9psi the WI only system worked great, but when the ambient temps reached over 30c i had to start adding over 15% water and noticed the performance drop off.

I leaned out the AFR's but then needed to add water again, no amount of balancing could claw back the lost performance, and anything over 20% caused spluttering.

In the end i took the water % back and knocked 4 degrees off the timing and fitted a IC, now with the IC and WI i'm able to run the stock ECU's timing curve at 14btdc through 46c+ weather no worries
--------------

[poison]

What systems are there for Water Injection? Anything that can be made/modified to suit or is it an off the shelf $$$ item?

[Habanero666]

Thanks for the post Jif that was interesting about the WI!

I thought a mixture of Alcohol with H2O would have worked best personaly but each to there own.

I have decided on the IC set up as I am resonably confident the engine is well preped against detonation.... put it this way, my first run on this set up was at 10 deg btdc for about 100 kilometers and not a whisker of knock! It is set at 5 deg now because it is stinking hot here in Palmy and I'm not sure of the AFR.

WHERE CAN I GET A BIPES SET UP???

HOW MUCH???

I can deposit money into an NZ bank account but cannot purchase from overseas.

[jif]

the Bipes vendors are listed in the FAQ in the prev post

[poison]

Oh good find Jif, so I am not the only one at home today and a bit bored I'll give you a call tomorrow and see if you're up for coffee.

From this I assume it could also be triggerd from a pressure switch (the same as used for the O2 clamp) or if you have an eManage Blue Slydit has brilliantly come up with a system using the V-tec output option. But therefore it also seems to be a constant volume. But then again to do variable volume control would be a bit tricky to make and also to tune. A photo of the set-up would have been good. Have you seen anywhere that shows a reccomended water volume per engine cc/boost? I like the whole idea of this, if nothing else it's cool (no pun intended).

His idea of tapping into the silicone hose sounds risky, if the inside washer were to come free for any reason (and they do) it could wreak havock in the engine, if the valves survived it would certainly make some nice sharp points on one of the cylinder domes = potential hot spots for pre-ignition.

[poison]

Hey Habanero666 wow you didn't waste time did you that was all done pretty quick, well done. I'm envious, I think about stuff for ages and then finally get it done way too late. By the way what does CBV stand for? Obviously AKA a Blow Off Valve (BOV).

I have done a substantial amount of port work and development to the 'squish' area of the combustion chamber and pistons.

I have only played around with squish on 2 stroke jet skis and only when I had a spec to follow. What did you do exactly? It's hard to work on a cylinder head free hand if you want a good job. I'm unlikely to ever get that far but it's interesting none the less.

Best gain in CFM was 'Unshrouding' the valves (area between the valve seats outer edges and the cylinder bore) you can increase flow MASSIVELY!! This is acheived by a huge increase in the valve 'curtain' area; the higher this percentage, the higher the flow, the more power!!!

I don't quite get you here, I would have thought boring out the tube the valves sit in would be good but not sure where you are talking about, did you take any pics? Or if possible can you sketch and copy/PDF it? For us not in the trade this is getting into deep dark territory and would be nice to know.

[SLYDIT]

i wouldnt push more than 6-7 psi on stock timing if you were running 98 octane and an O2 clamp in place...the amount of boost/timing is dependant on what your air fuel ratios are at. with stock timing id guess youd need to be under 11:1 afr to keep detonation at bay....but heres the rub...

By going richer you will loose HP, so there has to be a balance between a rich afr to keep away knock or retarded timing witch will also loose HP, you may find for instance that with a more retarded ignition you can run a leaner mixture which may make more HP than a rich/advanced mixture for instance...its all a fine balancing act.

The O2 clamp is THE most overlooked piece of hardware on a turbo car. Basicllay it keeps the afr's correct at part throttle and at full throttle below 4000 rpm, and prevents the engine going lean while boosting at part throttle, say up a long hill.
Before i connected my O2 clamp, my car would hiccup while going up long hills...when data logged it showed it was goingwaaaay lean as the stock ECU was fighting against all the fuel the piggyback ECU (in your case, an AFPR) was putting in.

By the way , i used a combination of "long radius bends" and "donuts" from the muffler shop to make the ic pipes...for instance the pipe from the throttle body down was a 2.5" 90* long radius bend (5" radius bend?)and it (just) fits behind the swaybar at the bottom.the idle control valve hose was simply turned 90 degrees and a nipple welded to the ic pipe.

[Habanero666]

Hey Habanero666 wow you didn't waste time did you that was all done pretty quick, well done. I'm envious, I think about stuff for ages and then finally get it done way too late. By the way what does CBV stand for? Obviously AKA a Blow Off Valve (BOV).

CBV is a "Kompressor Bypass valve" it is normally open untill boost onset ( thus, intake air bypassing the Kompressor inlet flows unrestricted into the throttle body intake. whoossh Ja?).Then... the signal line receives pressure under boost and with assistance of the spring in the valve (higher spring tension in the porsche one) snaps the valve shut and hey presto... your engine is on boost and no pesky flat spots or sluggish 'up and go'. Danke Doktor Porsche! Then when you lift off the loud pedal, the manifold vacuum goes up and opens the valve, the charge air then bypasses the kompressor again and into the kompressor intake pipe, no loss of metered air and no kompressor surge.
I chose this method, as I am familar with the L-Jetronic system bosch developed for European cars and how well it works .

I have done a substantial amount of port work and development to the 'squish' area of the combustion chamber and pistons.

I have only played around with squish on 2 stroke jet skis and only when I had a spec to follow. What did you do exactly? It's hard to work on a cylinder head free hand if you want a good job. I'm unlikely to ever get that far but it's interesting none the less.

I won't go into details, It requires a lot of angular augmentation of the 'pent roof' chamber of the head and its relationship with the angles on the piston face. Things like remachined ring lands and fly cutting etc. Machinists find this common practice...

Best gain in CFM was 'Unshrouding' the valves (area between the valve seats outer edges and the cylinder bore) you can increase flow MASSIVELY!! This is acheived by a huge increase in the valve 'curtain' area; the higher this percentage, the higher the flow, the more power!!!

I don't quite get you here, I would have thought boring out the tube the valves sit in would be good but not sure where you are talking about, did you take any pics? Or if possible can you sketch and copy/PDF it? For us not in the trade this is getting into deep dark territory and would be nice to know.

Porting is just a fraction of head preping, it provides the correct 'cone' shape of air/fuel at the right velocity over and around the head of the valve. The velocity of the incoming mixture dictates the length of the cone's point into the combustion chamber, effecting everything from atomisation of fuel, ignition timing requirements and VE (volumetric efficiency) due to cylinder filling. Simply put swirl. Exhaust ports are different again but I dont like releasing this kind of data. 216 cfm is not bad for a head to flow N/A but a different story with forced induction!

Curtain area is the percentage of ' valve surface area' that can be used to transfere the intake mixture into the combustion chamber. More valves = more curtain area. The reason why more flows better than just big.

Any more questions just send me your engine and a pile of cash...haha..just kidding. I have pix of oil return and cylinder prep block etc, just need to edit them.

Hope this answers the questions

[Habanero666]

The O2 clamp is THE most overlooked piece of hardware on a turbo car. Basicllay it keeps the afr's correct at part throttle and at full throttle below 4000 rpm, and prevents the engine going lean while boosting at part throttle, say up a long hill.
Before i connected my O2 clamp, my car would hiccup while going up long hills...when data logged it showed it was goingwaaaay lean as the stock ECU was fighting against all the fuel the piggyback ECU (in your case, an AFPR) was putting in.

Yes I have studied this phenomena, lean surge is very detrimental to a pistons health!! an o2 clamp will sort this? sounds Awesome!
Where and how much?

By the way , i used a combination of "long radius bends" and "donuts" from the muffler shop to make the ic pipes...for instance the pipe from the throttle body down was a 2.5" 90* long radius bend (5" radius bend?)and it (just) fits behind the swaybar at the bottom.the idle control valve hose was simply turned 90 degrees and a nipple welded to the ic pipe.[/quote]
Ok thanks for that, I priced em up and holy moley thats gona hurt...besides I'm gona get the TIG out and rip into some Al tubing to save on weight.

Keen on O2 clamp. Please advise.

[SLYDIT]

Aluminium I/C pipes????

Now thats just showing off!
My tig welding skills dont extend to thin wall Alu' tubing.

If you have some basic soldering skills and a good digital multimeter then you can whip up a O2 clamp for about $20-$30. (i can draw you up a circuit diagram if you want) its just a pressure switch operated relay that switches off the oxygen sensor input into the ECU and replaces it with a dummy voltage of about 0.40 volts to keep the ecu thinking that the mixtures are ok, and thus preventing it from pulling the fuel your adding in by other means.

[Habanero666]

Aluminium I/C pipes????

Now thats just showing off!
My tig welding skills dont extend to thin wall Alu' tubing.

Eerr, opps,nah just a heck of alot of practice and wet shop rag technology!


If you have some basic soldering skills and a good digital multimeter then you can whip up a O2 clamp for about $20-$30. (i can draw you up a circuit diagram if you want) its just a pressure switch operated relay that switches off the oxygen sensor input into the ECU and replaces it with a dummy voltage of about 0.40 volts to keep the ecu thinking that the mixtures are ok, and thus preventing it from pulling the fuel your adding in by other means.

Yes please, that would be most helpful also a place to get these parts would be great!