NON-POWERED STEERING

Bob K · Post by **Bob K** » Thu Jul 14, 2005 9:15 pm

We have recently bought a 1989 MX5 NA6CE. The steering loads up badly in tight
corners, it gets increasingly heavy the tighter the corner (even turning
slowly in to our gateway) and I am finding it tough going in the twisty stuff.
The car is fitted with non-standard wheels and the tyres are 195-60-15 and
maybe the bigger footprint is the cause.The tyres do not show uneven wear but
I am considering having the steering geometry checked. I would appreciate
advice as to whether there is a problem with the car or with me!
Also, does anyone know whether it is possible to convert to power steering?
and do you think that this mod could be completed by a reasonably competent
home handyman?

Cheers,
Bob and Cath Kingston

EricW · Post by **EricW** » Thu Jul 14, 2005 9:40 pm

Hi Bob,

Those tyres don't seem overly wide to me, I suspect you have an alignment
problem.

I do not know the practicality of converting to power steer, I would think it
could be done, but it would probably be more economical to change cars. But I
also believe that with a good alignment the problem, and the necessity to
change will go away.

Eric

garry · Post by **garry** » Thu Jul 14, 2005 9:59 pm

When this came up recently i deleted it before replying but as you have found
with a small step up in wheel size it can make it really hard to steer and
those thinking about a non power steer had better be happy with skinny wheels
i have 17 by 7's and i dont think it would be a nice drive without power
steering.

To answer your question it should be easy enough to add power steer to your
car given that the parts are going to be readily available and bolt straight
in, of course a lot better to have a car with it already than retro fit it.

Garry

Robyn and Rich · Post by **Robyn and Rich** » Thu Jul 14, 2005 10:08 pm

We have a 1989 non power steer one which i have just put 205/15 dunlops
on. It is a bit heavy at very slow speeds but very good at speed. I have
them at 32lbs and am happy to live with the heavy feeling down slow
which is more than compensated by the good handling at speed. Power
steer is not an option for me as the car would loose its old world
sports car feel which is the major atraction ( was an MG nut until we
got the MX5 ) Try a wheel alignment and check the tyre pressures and
also make sure the front tyres are a matched pair. Good luck R & R

poison · Post by **poison** » Thu Jul 14, 2005 11:48 pm

MessageThe key here is speed, the faster you are going the easier to turn.
Thus go faster into your driveway, perhaps learning to handbrake slide would
help. Not only easier to steer but more fun too. I would also recomend an
alignment check, never a bad thing to do.

By the way Eric, it was nice to meet you at the agm after all this time, sorry
we didn't get to chat.

Gazza
"PO1SON"

brentweaver · Post by **brentweaver** » Fri Jul 15, 2005 11:06 am

Hi Bob, Just thought I would add to your problems. Norman Garrett in his Miata
Performance Handbook, recommends that replacement wheels is one of the easiest
ways to upset the suspension and steering. Are your new wheels, hubcentric or
are they just centred by the wheel nuts? The wheel offset is very important
also standard factory is 45 mm. Most aftermarket wheels are in the 35 to 37mm
range. Mazda didn't go for what the industry standard was but went with the
requirements of the suspension set up. If you can get a lone of his
knowledgeable book there is a wealth of information in it.

Cheers, Brent

Post by **zorruno** » Fri Jul 15, 2005 3:17 pm

rhkingston wrote:

We have recently bought a 1989 MX5 NA6CE. The steering loads up badly in
tight corners, it gets increasingly heavy the tighter the corner (even
turning slowly in to our gateway) and I am finding it tough going in the
twisty stuff.
The car is fitted with non-standard wheels and the tyres are 195-60-15
and maybe the bigger footprint is the cause.

I doubt tyre size is is attributing too much to steering as the contact
patch would be similar, but you can check the difference from stock here:
http://www.miata.net/garage/tirecalc.html

The tyres you have will make your speedo read over 6% slow. (the stock
tyre would be 50 profile in that size)

I'd start with an alignment check. Too much caster would effect the
steering load quite badly. Especially without power steering

cheers
zorruno

From k.jones@auckland.ac.nz Fri Apr 27 16:56:37 2007
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I can reinforce zorruno's comments about too much caster.
For racing purposes I have set the caster to the maximum possible, about
5 degrees.
This turned my non-powered steering from being acceptable at parking
speeds to something that needs the Hulk to drive it (which I am not).
It's great on the track though.

Keith

EricW · Post by **EricW** » Fri Jul 15, 2005 6:15 pm

From the symptoms last night, excessive castor was my diagnosis too, but I

did not want to set any red herrings.

As I said, a goood alignment is probably going to fix the problem.

Eric

Bob K · Post by **Bob K** » Sat Jul 16, 2005 5:49 pm

Thanks everyone for your help. I am impressed with the thoughtful and detailed
replies. Even Gazza agrees on the need for an alignment check! Which I will
arrange SASPO.
Gaza, I tried a handbrake turn into our gateway, nearly clouted the concrete
fence and created a certain amount of concern amongst the residents of our
quiet suburban street! (just kidding) but I am the oldest teenager at 63y and
enjoying my second childhood.
Seriously, I am entered in the October Narva Tour and need advice and practice
on driving techniques to get the best out of the event and the MX5. If there
are any track days at Manfield or Taupo before then I would be a starter.
Right now I would be happy to know how to make heel-and-toe down changes. Can
anyone help? (not you Gazza)

Thanks, Bob Kingston

poison · Post by **poison** » Sat Jul 16, 2005 6:42 pm

Wounded... and ya try n' help some folks...

Gazza
"PO1SON"

animalmagic · Post by **animalmagic** » Sat Jul 16, 2005 8:19 pm

Right now I would be happy to know how to make heel-and-toe down

changes.

<http://www.edmunds.com/ownership/howto/ ... ticle.html>

With pictures

--
Regards Terry

Well, dinner would have been splendid...
if the wine had been as cold as the soup,
the beef as rare as the service,
the brandy as old as the fish,
and the maid as willing as the Duchess.
- Winston Churchill

--

MN · Post by MN » Sun Jul 17, 2005 5:36 pm

If you've got a roll bar then there are heaps of opportunities at Manfield and
Taupo in their dual car sprints.

Do you need to heal-and-toe? The syncro is excellent so I think it will be
slower way to change gear. Having done 2 tarmac rallies in my 5 there wasn't
one occassion when I even considered the need to use that technique. Don't
forget the Tour is just that and will be policed even more this year
(especially after a Tour entrant had a major crash at Tauranga) as MSNZ is not
that keen on such things.

Bob K · Post by **Bob K** » Sun Jul 17, 2005 7:47 pm

Thanks for your comments. I am not a competition driver and no expert but I
feel that it isn't so much the need for a speedy change as a smooth one. I
blip the throttle coming down form 5th to 4th, 4th to 3rd for a corner but by
then I am braking and can't blip with my right foot for a smooth change into
2nd or 1st. How do you achieve this?
I also appreciate your comments on the Narva Tour. Changes have been made for
this year requiring tour entrants to hold a very basic competition licence and
carry basic safety gear. I wonder on the one hand whether these changes will
allow us to "press on" a bit this time but I also wonder if it may compromise
my vehicle insurance by making the tour a motorsport event. Obviously, I will
have to take this up with Targa and my insurance company.
Cheers,
Bob Kingston

rodneyptaylor · Post by **rodneyptaylor** » Sun Jul 17, 2005 10:59 pm

Hi, I used to do heel & toe changes quite often many years ago for the reasons
u mention (synchros were not always so good and not present in 1st.) I have
not used it for yonks but as it suggests heel on one pedal and toe on the
other, i.e. a contortionist effort to put your foot slightly sideways. (never
tried in the MX ) don't know whether there would be room for my size 11's.
Interested to know if u can do it??

Rod
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poison · Post by **poison** » Sun Jul 17, 2005 11:32 pm

Heel and toe methods are becoming popular again with Drift racing/driving,
apply the brakes as you go into the corner to take the weight off the back
wheels at the same time keeping the rev's up allowing the rear wheels to break
free and slide more easily through the corner. FYI

Gazza

"PO1SON"

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