Electric MX-5 Project

Discussions relating to Turbochargers, Superchargers, Induction, Engine Mods, Exhaust Mods, and other items specifically to make your MX5 or Roadster put out more power.

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evmx5
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Electric MX-5 Project

Post by evmx5 » Wed Sep 02, 2009 7:51 pm

Hi everyone,

I'm seeking some MX5 knowledge which for all my searching I'm still in doubt.

First let me explain my project, the title was a little misleading :lol: I have a 1998 MX5 1.6L 5 speed which I am converting to electric. Yup I'm putting a rather large DC motor running at 156 volts under the hood (so its is a type of rotary... ) :wink:

So this brings me to my question, now in order to fit the motor to the existing transmission an adapter plate is made that fits the shape of the MX5 bellhousing, a taper lock coupler is used to interface the motor shaft to the flywheel. Now to make things easy I'm just going to buy a pre fabricated adapter plate, but this plate is designed for a 1997 1.8L MX5 whereas I have a 1998 1.6L.

Put simply - is the 1997 1.8L bellhousing and transmission case the same as the 1998 1.6L bellhousing and transmission case???? (Note 1997 is series 1 and I have series 2 mx5).

If there are differences - are differences in the transmission or bellhousing or both?

Any help would be greatly appreciated! :)

Thanks,
Pete.

Lower Hutt
Last edited by evmx5 on Sun Jan 30, 2011 4:16 pm, edited 1 time in total.

kiwipete
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MX5 Rotary Project!

Post by kiwipete » Wed Sep 02, 2009 7:55 pm

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO...

I met a guy ho did it to a perfectly good 68 Mini Cooper... what a waste... try a kit car with carbon body... maybe a tube frame... now that would be cool!

Peter from AKL


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kiwipete
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evmx5
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Re: MX5 Rotary Project!

Post by evmx5 » Wed Sep 02, 2009 8:16 pm

kiwipete wrote:NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO...

I met a guy ho did it to a perfectly good 68 Mini Cooper... what a waste... try a kit car with carbon body... maybe a tube frame... now that would be cool!

Peter from AKL
Now why would better performance and saving the environment at the same time be a waste?

Kit car.... are you kidding me!

jif
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MX5 Rotary Project!

Post by jif » Wed Sep 02, 2009 8:24 pm

I think its great... just as long as you can still indulge in a bit of hoonery ;)

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brownie
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Post by brownie » Wed Sep 02, 2009 11:53 pm

Yes ,Bell housing between B6 and BP ,is the same,You could even bolt a 6 speed to a 1600 motor if you were real keen .

Euen
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Post by Euen » Thu Sep 03, 2009 11:36 am

I have a neighbour who is about to do something similar to a Subaru Justy.

What's wrong with Kit Cars?

Seriously though, have you done any calculations yet on the likely weight of your batteries and the electric motor and also, where are you likely to locate the batteries. The 5 is quite finely balanced and too much weight in the wrong place can upset the handling.

Good luck with the project.
TG Sports, classic roadster - modern technology. NA1800, 99 head, 11:1 +2mm Wiseco pistons, Link LEM, Alloy f/wheel, JR headers.

evmx5
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Post by evmx5 » Thu Sep 03, 2009 3:16 pm

brownie wrote:Yes ,Bell housing between B6 and BP ,is the same,You could even bolt a 6 speed to a 1600 motor if you were real keen .
Thanks Brownie :)

evmx5
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Post by evmx5 » Thu Sep 03, 2009 3:21 pm

Euen wrote: What's wrong with Kit Cars?
My comment was out of line - kit cars are great, but I intend to use my MX5 as an everyday car too so it doesn't fit my purpose.
Euen wrote: Seriously though, have you done any calculations yet on the likely weight of your batteries and the electric motor and also, where are you likely to locate the batteries. The 5 is quite finely balanced and too much weight in the wrong place can upset the handling.
I'll be trying to maintain the weight distribution as best I can, I believe I can get the centre of gravity as low or lower than original. I'm not using Lead acid batteries so the weight won't be too much over normal and I should have plenty of room. I just won't have a spare tyre ;)

Thanks
Pete.

ham
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Post by ham » Thu Sep 03, 2009 3:42 pm

Hope we get to see some progress photos!
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Euen
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Post by Euen » Thu Sep 03, 2009 4:01 pm

evmx5 wrote: I'll be trying to maintain the weight distribution as best I can, I believe I can get the centre of gravity as low or lower than original. I'm not using Lead acid batteries so the weight won't be too much over normal and I should have plenty of room. I just won't have a spare tyre ;)
If you remove the fuel tank you could locate the batteries between the seats and the boot which would allow you to still retain a spare and a bit of luggage room in the boot.

Unfortunately you have to remove the rear subframe to get the tank out. The weight wouldn't be much higher than having them in the boot and would be further forward inside the wheelbase. I am presuming the electric motor will be a bit lighter than the original 1.6 which will also likely shift a bit more of the weight balance onto the rear.
TG Sports, classic roadster - modern technology. NA1800, 99 head, 11:1 +2mm Wiseco pistons, Link LEM, Alloy f/wheel, JR headers.

evmx5
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Post by evmx5 » Thu Sep 03, 2009 4:07 pm

Euen wrote: If you remove the fuel tank you could locate the batteries between the seats and the boot which would allow you to still retain a spare and a bit of luggage room in the boot.

Unfortunately you have to remove the rear subframe to get the tank out. The weight wouldn't be much higher than having them in the boot and would be further forward inside the wheelbase. I am presuming the electric motor will be a bit lighter than the original 1.6 which will also likely shift a bit more of the weight balance onto the rear.
Yea, I'm not looking forward to removing the fuel tank, because of the sub frame.

Motor weighs about 70kg, all of this sits at the same level as the transmission case of course. Not sure how much the original 1.6 is.

Euen
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Post by Euen » Thu Sep 03, 2009 4:53 pm

The only info I could find was for engine and trans weight, 401 lbs, 182Kg. This link is for a guy who is heading down a similar path to you in the states.

http://forum.miata.net/vb/showthread.php?t=342222

I will have a look when I get home to see if I have any further info.

One of the "dismantlers" may have weighed an engine for shipping, Brownie or Ross, are you out there??
TG Sports, classic roadster - modern technology. NA1800, 99 head, 11:1 +2mm Wiseco pistons, Link LEM, Alloy f/wheel, JR headers.

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Post by dynofiend » Thu Sep 03, 2009 9:04 pm

Great project. Im probably not alone in thinking that this sort of car probably spells the future of fun motoring. Anyone heard of the Tesla?

I dont know why people are worried about the weight. A passenger in your 5 weighs upwards of 70kg, all plonked on one side of the car. I for one dont notice any detrimental effect on handling when I carry a passenger... do you?

Any increase in weight from the batteries will be offset to a very large degree by the removal of the engine and fuel tank. Besides, projects like these are very rarely about outright performance gains or handling improvements.

Good luck to you, lets see plenty of pics, and please can I have a go when its finished? :D

evmx5
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Post by evmx5 » Thu Sep 03, 2009 9:10 pm

Euen wrote:The only info I could find was for engine and trans weight, 401 lbs, 182Kg. This link is for a guy who is heading down a similar path to you in the states.

I will have a look when I get home to see if I have any further info.

One of the "dismantlers" may have weighed an engine for shipping, Brownie or Ross, are you out there??
Thanks for that info Euen. There are quite a few mx5 conversions that I know of

evmx5
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Post by evmx5 » Thu Sep 03, 2009 9:16 pm

dynofiend wrote:Great project. Im probably not alone in thinking that this sort of car probably spells the future of fun motoring. Anyone heard of the Tesla?

I dont know why people are worried about the weight. A passenger in your 5 weighs upwards of 70kg, all plonked on one side of the car. I for one dont notice any detrimental effect on handling when I carry a passenger... do you?

Any increase in weight from the batteries will be offset to a very large degree by the removal of the engine and fuel tank. Besides, projects like these are very rarely about outright performance gains or handling improvements.

Good luck to you, lets see plenty of pics, and please can I have a go when its finished? :D
Yea the Tesla is an amazing car... 0-100kph in 3.9 seconds.

I still need to be careful with the weight, the car needs to go through certification and I can't exceed its GVWR (gross vehicle weight rating).

brownie
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Post by brownie » Thu Sep 03, 2009 9:40 pm

Check out this if it works, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=369h-SEBXd8

if not look for White Zombie on you tube.
Very cool 8)

poison
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Post by poison » Thu Sep 03, 2009 11:19 pm

What a great project, please post pictures and details on the journey, I can't think of a better car to do it with. Good luck, there are a few electrical people on the forum and lots of others with great knowledge so please feel free to bounce ideas around. :D Exciting....
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Euen
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Post by Euen » Fri Sep 04, 2009 10:57 am

Pete I found another thread on Miata. net

"Engine including flywheel, exhaust, alternator, clutch, intake manifold, and starter: 280 lb "

Thats about 127Kg
TG Sports, classic roadster - modern technology. NA1800, 99 head, 11:1 +2mm Wiseco pistons, Link LEM, Alloy f/wheel, JR headers.

evmx5
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Post by evmx5 » Fri Sep 04, 2009 12:30 pm

Euen wrote:
Pete I found another thread on Miata. net

"Engine including flywheel, exhaust, alternator, clutch, intake manifold, and starter: 280 lb "

Thats about 127Kg

Thanks Euen. That reminds me of another question I have about fly wheels. How...agressively..can a stock fly wheel be lightened.. or would it be better going for a after market fly wheel ? I'll be removing the ring gear since that is no longer required.

Pete.

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Re: MX5 Rotary Project!

Post by zorruno » Fri Sep 04, 2009 3:09 pm

evmx5 wrote: First let me explain my project, the title was a little misleading :lol: I have a 1998 MX5 1.6L 5 speed which I am converting to electric. Yup I'm putting a rather large DC motor running at 156 volts under the hood (so its is a type of rotary... )
Thanks,
Pete.

Lower Hutt
Wow, sounds like a great project. Will be be able to fill us in with more details as you go? I'd love to do the same one day myself (not to my current baby however!) as it would be perfect for cheap fun city driving.

I'd love to know what type of motor & where it comes from. Is it a commercial motor designed for mating to a transmission like this? What is the motor specs? What battery type/ charging mechanism(s)?

I have a friend in the Hutt that is an electronics specialist that would love to take a look I'm sure and would be happy to help with any microprocessor control, charging circuitry etc (he drives an MR2... but I don't hold that against him).

cheers
(z)

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Post by zorruno » Fri Sep 04, 2009 3:41 pm

Euen wrote:How...agressively..can a stock fly wheel be lightened.. or would it be better going for a after market fly wheel ? I'll be removing the ring gear since that is no longer required.
from memory the 1.6 flywheel is about 8kg and there are aftermarket ones that come even down to around 3.5kg. I have heard that people have taken off about 1.5kg from the stock flywheel by simple machining - I haven't bothered but may do one day.

Someone who knows a bit more may like to correct my memory...
(z)

Habanero666
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Post by Habanero666 » Fri Sep 04, 2009 5:02 pm

I thoroughly recommend lightening the flywheel, it makes a massive difference in terms of engine response.

You can aggressively lathe alot of meat off the flywheel for sure!

James
Tires aren't cheap!

evmx5
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Post by evmx5 » Fri Sep 04, 2009 9:07 pm

zorruno,

Here are a few of the key components, in the attached pic there is Lithium batter, I will be fitting 48 of these 120AH cells into the back, where the fuel tank was and in the front. Altogether it will make up 156volts.
The green box is a controller which controls how much power goes to the motor. It can put out 1000 amps momentarily and something like 300 amps continuously.

Shown also is the adapter plate I was asking about originally, it bolts upto the motor and to the transmission bellhousing.

The motor is called a Netgain Warp9, the motor itself is manufactured by a company called Warfield and tuned for electric vehicles by Netgain. Its 9.25" in diameter. Its by no means the most powerful motor around, but people do use this motor in vehicles as large as utes like Couriers, or Chevy S10 trucks in the states. So it'll smoke tires on the MX5 for sure.
Attachments
evcomponents.jpg
evcomponents.jpg (26.86 KiB) Viewed 19553 times

brownie
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Post by brownie » Fri Sep 04, 2009 11:03 pm

re,flywheel,
Lightest i've come across so for is the TODA flywheel i put in my car,3.8 kg when new,now 3.5 kg with a light skim before i put it in.
I do come across them from time to time coming in from Japan.
From memory 127kg sounds about right for a complete engine assembly with ancillerys.

petercristina
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MX5 Rotary Project!

Post by petercristina » Sat Sep 05, 2009 10:27 pm

Peter Garrity
Wellington

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