Stupid idea? Cheap supercharger

[Gravelben]

Something that occurred to me today, in my contemplation of more fun things to do to my MX5...

How hard would it be to fit the supercharger off a Toyota 4AG-ZE to an MX5? They came on a factory 1600cc engine and can be had on trademe for a couple of hundred $, what's the catch? I'm thinking it shouldn't be too hard to bump power up to 160-180bhp for well under $1k...

So if I was to acquire one and rig up some kind of bracket to fit it (most likely remove the aircon pump and drive it off that), what else do I need to consider? Oil feed for SC?

*Intercooler? boost may be low enough to not need one, or a small 2nd hand cooler from a Skyline/200SX/Subie could probably be bought fairly cheap from someone who's upgraded to a big front mount.

*Engine cooling, is the standard radiator generally good enough for a low-level FI '5?

*Fueling - would I need bigger injectors (323 turbo perhaps?), fuel pressure regulator, bigger fuel pump, etc?

*Tuning - I assume the standard ECU wouldn't handle it very well? What are the commonly used and best value aftermarket options for a supercharged '5, some form of piggyback thing or is it better to go for a full aftermarket computer, and if so is there a cheaper option than throwing $1500 at a Link? Second-hand Link? I've heard mention of an Emanage, is that a piggyback or replacement?

*Clutch/Gearbox/Diff - what will they handle? I guess with more power I may find myself wanting an LSD anyway.


Anything major I've missed? Do I need to back slowly away from the top of the slippery slope?

[Ian]

If it were me...I would be looking for a second hand G Reddy or better still, a JR M45. A dedicated MX5 set up is always going to be easier in the long run and there is an established upgrade path gor both sysems, and esp in the case of the M45, a host of aftermarket support avail thru US suppliers (eg Moss, TDR etc) plus a dedicated supercharger sub section forum on Miata.net - all you could ever wan to know and then some! Generally, 1.6 drivetrains are good for 160/180 hp (and often more) BUT, so much depends on how the car is driven...the clutch will need an upgrade with these numbers..the rad less likely (if its in good nick) and then one from an auto should be more than enough.
I would steer you in the direction of the miata net forum...and search...all your questions have been asked and answered at some time or other........
Ian

PS when you install your new cage, you might want to look at putting a diagonal brace in as well (from the foot of the hoop)...this will greatly add to the efectiveness of the structure in the event of a rollover

[Gravelben]

More stupid questions...if I was to try and put together a turbo conversion for it out of second-hand parts (unless I found a cheap MX5-specific turbo or SC kit which seems unlikely), using for arguments sake the primary (small) turbo from a Legacy GT (boosts very low down and peaks at 11 psi in a Sub), I've done some research, gone through the things I can think of, found ballpark costs on trademe etc, But there's one thing I haven't been able to find much about...

Exhaust manifold for a turbo - any ideas roughly how much I should expect to pay for one, or where to find them?

I reckon it might be doable for $2k or so (with a used Link or Emanage), My rough trademe figures came to about $1400 excluding the manifold/downpipe as I had no idea of cost, and also without a new exhaust (which wouldn't be essential to start with but would free up more power). I guess allowing some extra for bits and pieces I've missed $2.5k is more realistic. Oh, and then theres a new clutch to take the power as well.

Quiet day at work and fun to think of possibiities anyway.

[Ian]

There are people on this site who have 'been there, done that' and far better qualified to answer your questions, so hopefully one or more of them will chime in.
In saying that, having facilities/abilities to fab things yourself certainly keeps the costs down when you are cobbling something together.
If you have $2,500, you should be able to easily source a MX5 specific 2nd hand 'plug and play' kit I would have thought..........for that you could get a second hand one out of the States! (you will need to factor in an engineer report for certifcation, of course)

[Psycho_Dad]

dear gravel ben

tomorrow my supercharged mr2, which has been converted to turbocharged, is going on the dyno for a tune, im using a mitsubishi td04l as the turbo and expecting around 140-160kwatw using the factory mr2 ecu(the td04 is also found on in subarus)

once im done doing this, im looking at bolting a evo7 turbo onto my mx5, im making the manifold myself, and running a mega squirt as engine management

to be honest a sc12(Toyota 1600 supercharger) on a mx5 with the standard ecu wouldn't be much of a hassle, id imagine you would get away with using a rising rate fuel pressure regulator and a new fuel pump- because superchargers run a fairly even boost curve

a sc12 would make you car run well, more than likely due to the high compression+forced induction piss over anything with less than 8 cyls non tuebo, but dont expect to beat anything with a turbo bolted onto it(unless its deisel)

the tourque of a supercharger may kill your differential too(if your cars a 1.6

in the end ive owned 3 sc mr2s, but in the end, i went with an mx5, and i went with turbos

yes you will need a intercooler, if i could tattoo this onto your menula oblangata i would, so that along with regulating your heart beat blood preassure and breathing it would remind you that forced induction needs intercooling


if i can help in any way just ask
peace
Psycho_Dad

[Gravelben]

Thanks for the advice guys, some other interesting alternatives have presented themselves too so I'll see how things develop. Have been reading up on things some more too, miata.net is full of usefulness


PS A useful thing I observed on trademe which may be worth sharing, the factory intercoolers from Silvias, Skylines, Supras and so on are remarkably cheap (I think cheaspest I saw was $10 for an S13 IC) second-hand and I expect plenty big enough for most MX5 applications.

[SLYDIT]

i hate to burst your bubble guys but a 4agze super charger simply wont fit into an mx5 engine bay for one very simple reason......

the Jackson racing M45 supercharger has an END ENTRY into the super charger and a side exit out the boost side...and a 4agze s/c has the in/out BOTH on the sides, and it is simply too "wide" by the time you add the pipe work.

One of my mates has 3 4agze superchargers and i borrowed one for the weekend to see if it would fit, and it dont.

also i have "been there done that" with regards ro the DIY turbo setup and used a subaru VF10 turbo. See my signature for a link to my cardomain page.

Basic budget of costs would break down like this..

turbo manifold $400+
turbo $150+
exhaust$400
oil lines $150
intercooler couplers (silicone) $200
intercooler and pipes $600+
Emanage (new) $1000
Cert $350
Dyno tune $250

dont forget all the other bits and pieces youll need...
Some people may think you can do it cheaper but you have to ask yourself how much time you want to spend on the side of the road.

I doubt that anyone has built a cheaper turbo system than I, that is 100% reliable and spits out nearly 200whp every day.

It cost me a tad over 3 grand and i did A LOT AND I DO MEAN A LOT OF THE FABRICATION MYSELF IN OUR WORKSHOP.

[Gravelben]

Ah thought there might be some simple reason like that, otherwise more people would do it!

Current best-looking option is to buy a car thats already been sorted, think I might save myself a lot of money in the long-term by doing that instead of making (and trying to fix) all the mistakes myself.


So who wants to buy my pretty standard (have done suspension braces, windblocker, headlights) 210km '89 Eunos?

[madandy]

Any progress here, Ben?

I'm looking at fitting a similar set-up to what SLYDIT has described to my 'lil red na6.
Brakes, clutch, suspension & tyres to cope with the extra oomph too.

[Gravelben]

Nah, I came close to buying this one: http://www.mx5forum.co.nz/ads_item.php?id=68 but realised that a lot of the fun with mine is being able to give it heaps without being too illegal, and also can let mates have a thrash too without it biting them which I wouldn't be able to do with a properly quick one. Swings and roundabouts I guess, but I decided to keep the standard one and upgrade my sensible car (Legacy wagon) to a turbo version instead.