Idle droop

Discussions relating to Turbochargers, Superchargers, Induction, Engine Mods, Exhaust Mods, and other items specifically to make your MX5 or Roadster put out more power.

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GEEMCB
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Idle droop

Post by GEEMCB » Tue Jun 27, 2006 10:10 pm

I've got the dreaded droop :oops: (idle droop that is ....)

Seems to have got a bit worse since Don popped in a lightened flywheel.

Symptoms are
1) when the throttle is lifted revs drop back to about 1100 & hold for about 2 secs, then drop to about 4-500 & oscilate between 400 & 1100 - sometimes for 20 cycles or so
2) does not seem to occur when the car is cold

I've done the idle screw adjustment as recommended on miata.net
http://www.miata.net/garage/ignition.html#idle

and Rob Spargo's method too (pretty much the same)
http://www.miata.net/garage/KnowYourCar/S7_Idle.html

however the problem persists.

I'm thinking that I perhaps need to go sleuthing for a leak downsteam of the air-flow meter (as per the information on the "supercharger & fast idle" thread). The car doesn't have forced induction though (yet :) )

Any other thoughts ?

Regards,
Greg
1990 V Special

GEEMCB
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Idle droop - fixed I think !

Post by GEEMCB » Sun Jul 09, 2006 7:39 pm

Well the deed is done.

Some of the threads about supercharger idle (with contribuitons from Slydit - thanks !) started me thinking about whether my O2 sensor was working. Turns out it was located miles downstream of where it should have been (thanks to aftermarket headers) - in fact it was only about 400mm in front of the cat converter by the time the 4-2-1 had done it's stuff. So the poor thing was 1) certainly old & 2) probably cold.

After much deliberation I got a 4 wire Denso sensor off a very late 1.6 NB at Ace of Parts near the Auckland saleyards (the engine only had 2,000 km on it !). I took note of the wire colours on the loom side of the plug that connected the sensor to the loom - that way I thought I could track which sensor wire did what.

Not so easy - tried to use the madracki wiring diagrams but they were only for 1.8 engines & didn't quite match. Ended up ringing the technicians at John Andrew who looked at their diagrams - again they only had 1.8 diagrams but at least their colours matched mine !

Installed the sensor Saturday afternoon - took a couple of hours including farting around getting the car up etc etc.

And the result - great! Running the engine in the garage I seemed to be getting the right range of voltages coming into the PCM. The sensor also got hot if I left the ignition on for a couple of minutes. On the road the car is measurably faster & idles perfectly. Unfortunately I didn't do a performance test with the new O2 only - but the combined effect of a lightened flywheel & the new O2 sensor is a 3.7% improvement in 2,000 to 6,000rpm times in second gear. (OK, OK - I know it's not that scientific but faster is faster no matter how you get it! :D )

So - there you go. I'll be interested to see the longer term impact on driveability, fuel consumption, colour of exhaust pipe (quite sooty now) & the dreaded droopy idle !

With thanks to Slydit (for techy stuff) & David M (for moral support)

Regards,
Greg
1990 V Special

zorruno
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Post by zorruno » Mon Jul 10, 2006 11:54 am

Curious... did you re mount the O2 sensor somewhere else? Or just install it in the same place?
(z)

GEEMCB
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Post by GEEMCB » Mon Jul 10, 2006 6:14 pm

Nope - same place, just relying on the built-in heater to ensure it worked properly. Apparently these things only work when really hot & I think that mine was just too far downstream. Either that it is was just buggered anyway. Who knows !!??

Regards,
Greg
1990 V Special

poison
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Post by poison » Mon Jul 10, 2006 6:34 pm

I've read that the four wire ones work better as they pre-heat and thus reduce the cold running issues.

Some sources also say if you put it too close after a turbo they willl burn up - for some unknown reason it'shotter after a turbo than just the manifold. Mines about 300mm after the trubo, so I'll have to wait and see...

Gazza
:twisted: Gazda in the white HOT Mazda :twisted:

GEEMCB
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Post by GEEMCB » Mon Jul 10, 2006 6:42 pm

Hi, Gazza

Belated welcome back ....

Yes that too - faster to respond upon initial start-up. Here is the link to my (nearly) sole source of truth on the matter

http://mymiata.paladinmicro.com/Miata4-WireO2.htm

(plus some advice from Glen who confirmed that the output range for all of them is 0 - 1 V or thereabouts).

So hopefully it's reasonably accurate technically - digging back through to distant memories as a chemical engineer it seems OK.

Driveability results are heaps better than I'd expected too. Throttle over-run is now smoother (had had a slight variation which I put down to lightened flywheel) & droopy idle is completely gone (verified again today)

Regards,
Greg
1990 V Special

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