My daily driver fuel question

Quidam · Post by **Quidam** » Tue Nov 17, 2009 3:37 pm

So I've bought a Jap Import 94 Celica GT4. Very well looked after by 2 previous owners in NZ, with the 1st owner being a Toyota Employee (40% discount on all his receipts). 2nd owner has just had the cam belt and clutch done.

So I just assumed high Octane petrol is always the best choice, but it occurs to me that if a is car is imported from Japan then maybe it's tuned to run on lower octane fuel? Am I wasting my money putting more expensive gas in this car?

Thoughts/advise appreciated.

Timmo · Post by **Timmo** » Tue Nov 17, 2009 4:27 pm

Nope- other way around.

NZ new models may be tuned to run our lower grade/octane fuel.
Japanese imports (i.e. imported used designed for the JDM) are, generally, base tuned to run on higher octane fuel.....I can't remember the exact numbers but from memory, their 'regular' is around the 94-95 RON.

JDM turbo cars especially should be run on at least 96 and on 98 RON if avaliable. Trying to save money by using cheaper fuel is a false economy.

Quidam · Post by **Quidam** » Tue Nov 17, 2009 5:28 pm

Thanks mate for clearing that up. Well yes, I have always used high octane fuel in my cars, but someone suggested that because my Celica was an import it was lower performance than NZ GT4's which were designed to run on premium fuel.

I don't think he is right. From what I have read, the JDM GT4's have higher hoursepower than those that were sent to Europe, and America never got this car (94 onwards)

Regardless, it goes like a cut-cat and sticks to the road like glue!!! Actually I believe it has the same engine as the MR2 Turbo's had

Quidam · Post by **Quidam** » Tue Nov 17, 2009 5:32 pm

ps. here's a quick pic I just took of it.

It's in amazing condition for its age and milage, only thing I don't like are the stock mags UGLY

Habanero666 · Post by **Habanero666** » Tue Nov 17, 2009 6:31 pm

You could also have a picnic on that tail spoiler!

True about JDM car's fuel requirements.
The eunos roadster has a different power output to the miata or mx5 but only slightly higher.

I used to own a JDM GTi suzuki swift, it had the most beautiful tubular tuned intake manifold and headers, along with many other factors included higher engine power output that you did not see on the NZ or Aussie donk variety.

Oh yeah if you own one, try putting the nissan SR20det throttlebody on it, makes a massive difference.

mazdad · Post by **mazdad** » Tue Nov 17, 2009 7:59 pm

I can vouch for that.
After running my 1.8 JDM RSII on 90 for the past six month, Brownie (this forum) advised 95. Ran the last tank of 90 right down andfilled with BP 95, what a difference! Was getting OK performance before with the ocassional backfire on overrun/deceleration, now it's just so much smoother on the way up and not a beat missed on the way down.
Would never have believed it - thanks Brownie

Timmo · Post by **Timmo** » Tue Nov 17, 2009 10:24 pm

Quidam wrote:Thanks mate for clearing that up. Well yes, I have always used high octane fuel in my cars, but someone suggested that because my Celica was an import it was lower performance than NZ GT4's which were designed to run on premium fuel.

I don't think he is right. From what I have read, the JDM GT4's have higher hoursepower than those that were sent to Europe, and America never got this car (94 onwards)

Regardless, it goes like a cut-cat and sticks to the road like glue!!! Actually I believe it has the same engine as the MR2 Turbo's had

Yep the GT4 and Celica shares the 3S-GTE and 3S-GE respectively. There are slight differences in the mounting of ancillaries (i.e. alternator) between the cars though. The 3S-GTE is also used in the Caldina GTT although, again, there are slight differences (i.e. the turbo in the caldina is integrated into the exhaust manifold)

Both the NZ new performance cars and JDM performance may be tuned for 'Premium' fuel, but 'Premium' is just a marketing term- In terms of the chemical properties (i.e. ability to resist detonation), they are different- 96 RON fuel (i.e. Premium in NZ) is around about what is considered 'Regular' in Japan. Premium fuel in Japan is closer to 99 RON (i.e. BP Ultimate 98 RON)

Of course, modern cars with fuel injection need feedback via sensors to determine knock and if they detect it, they retard timing to protect the engine.......this results in a loss of power. 3S-GTEs are pretty conservative in their fuelling and timing anyway but as I said, it is a false economy to try and save money in that type of car by using 91 RON fuel.

Have fun with the GT4- Ive come to the MX5 from a Turbo MR2 (and a NA Mr2 before that)....I have to say, I'm having more fun in the MX5

Ben.Nakagawa · Post by **Ben.Nakagawa** » Tue Nov 17, 2009 10:29 pm

1994, in Japan, if I remember correctly the hi-octane petrol is around 100 and regular was about 95. There was many car, especially hi performance one, was turned to take high octane petrol around 98+.

Not sure the GT4 is one of them, but likely.

PS. that the year (November) I got out form that country. My last ride in there was Toyota Supra 2.0 Twin turbo. I haven't much used that car...

Ian · Post by **Ian** » Wed Nov 18, 2009 5:32 pm

Quidam wrote:So I've bought a Jap Import 94 Celica GT4. Very well looked after by 2 previous owners in NZ, with the 1st owner being a Toyota Employee (40% discount on all his receipts). 2nd owner has just had the cam belt and clutch done.

So I just assumed high Octane petrol is always the best choice, but it occurs to me that if a is car is imported from Japan then maybe it's tuned to run on lower octane fuel? Am I wasting my money putting more expensive gas in this car?

Thoughts/advise appreciated.

Am I correct in assuming the car has no Owner's Handbook ??? (despite having a Toyota employee as a previous owner) Every car should have one - dare I suggest that should be the first $40 you spend on your new toy......

Quidam · Post by **Quidam** » Wed Nov 18, 2009 10:03 pm

Correct Ian, no handbook in sight, and you are right, I should try to pick one up. Tried scanning the web but no luck scoring a free download. Not the first thing I'm going to spend on it though. I'm getting a new set of mags on this baby, priority one.

On the other hand, lots of extras on this car!

Has factory electric sunroof; full bodykit; rear proximity detectors for reversing (probably why it has no dents lol); turbo timer, and it appears it was also chipped at the same time the timer was put in with some sort of gps surveilence -I assume if it got stolen the cops could tell me where it is.

Mark · Post by **Mark** » Wed Nov 18, 2009 10:16 pm

Timmo wrote:96 RON fuel (i.e. Premium in NZ) is around about what is considered 'Regular' in Japan. Premium fuel in Japan is closer to 99 RON (i.e. BP Ultimate 98 RON)

I think "regular" in Japan is RON octane 89, "premium" RON 96, but perhaps extra premium grade is also available, as it is here.
Perhaps Ben can translate what's written on the underside of the gas filler flap of my '98 JDM NB:

brownie · Post by **brownie** » Wed Nov 18, 2009 10:41 pm

I was flicking thru my dealer service manuel and it states minimum fuel requirements for a NZ New NA 1600 is RON 91,
As far as i've been told by a few people in the know is our 91 unleaded fuel is actually RON 85 !! ,So one would assume 95 unleaded is closer to RON 91.
Anther words our cheapest fuel is crap in pretty much any petrol powered car on our roads.

Mark · Post by **Mark** » Wed Nov 18, 2009 11:01 pm

brownie wrote:I was flicking thru my dealer service manuel and it states minimum fuel requirements for a NZ New NA 1600 is RON 91,
As far as i've been told by a few people in the know is our 91 unleaded fuel is actually RON 85 !! ,So one would assume 95 unleaded is closer to RON 91.
Anther words our cheapest fuel is crap in pretty much any petrol powered car on our roads.

Well that's wrong. The "pump" octane ratings here are RON.
91 RON would be about 83 MON.

Ben.Nakagawa · Post by **Ben.Nakagawa** » Thu Nov 19, 2009 8:25 am

Mark wrote:
Timmo wrote:96 RON fuel (i.e. Premium in NZ) is around about what is considered 'Regular' in Japan. Premium fuel in Japan is closer to 99 RON (i.e. BP Ultimate 98 RON)
I think "regular" in Japan is RON octane 89, "premium" RON 96, but perhaps extra premium grade is also available, as it is here.
Perhaps Ben can translate what's written on the underside of the gas filler flap of my '98 JDM NB:

I can ask my relatives what is the RON in these days, I've hard there is no more 100 Octane but settled around 96~98 with more cleaning agent. There was 100 in early to mid 90' and lots of performance car is tuned to run on premium (may be 95+, I'm not sure about the number).
I bet your GT4 is happier with premium.

The sticker says "Gasoline" and that's not really saying if it's regular or premium to me unless the colour meaning to something. Maybe prevent people pouring diesel at pump?

Habanero666 · Post by **Habanero666** » Thu Nov 19, 2009 10:46 am

Yep and the black/ white stickers are used for diesel fuel use only vehicles.

Lucky you didn't have one of those there Mark

Quidam · Post by **Quidam** » Thu Nov 19, 2009 11:53 am

Sunny day + day off = more pics of my latest toy

New 18 inch mags going on tomorrow!

Quidam · Post by **Quidam** » Thu Nov 19, 2009 12:00 pm

ps. if you are wondering about the number plate, I've been doing Yoga for over 10 years and teaching for about 5. I have a fairly contemporary and laid back approach, but still quite physical

poison · Post by **poison** » Thu Nov 19, 2009 3:02 pm

Quidam wrote:if you are wondering about the number plate

Holy crap, but still doesn't explain the Quidam though....

Mark · Post by **Mark** » Thu Nov 19, 2009 4:12 pm

Habanero666 wrote:Yep and the black/ white stickers are used for diesel fuel use only vehicles.

Lucky you didn't have one of those there Mark

Damned BP station near here had a black handled pump on their petrol bowser a few years ago. I got to about the 20 litre mark before I smelled petrol fumes, and was at about the 30 litre mark when the penny dropped. It was bloody heavy work pushing the truck round the back to the workshop.

Mark · Post by **Mark** » Thu Nov 19, 2009 4:19 pm

Ben.Nakagawa wrote: The sticker says "Gasoline" and that's not really saying if it's regular or premium to me unless the colour meaning to something. Maybe prevent people pouring diesel at pump?

LOL - thanks. I had a sneaking suspicion it might only say that.
I'm keen to know what the Japanese NB (BP5A) should run on. Aside from emissions differences, it's still not the same spec motor as NZ or US models. I'm using premium, and will probably stick with that.

Roadster RS · Post by **Roadster RS** » Thu Nov 19, 2009 5:34 pm

The standard for automotive fuel in Japan is set by the Japanese Industry Standard (JIS) K2202.

Regular Gasoline is 85RON and higher with a station average of 89.9 - 91.3.
High Octane Gasoline (Premium) is 95RON and higher with a station average of 97.0 - 98.5.

According to the specifications listed on carview.co.jp the recommended fuel for a 94 Celica GT4 is premium.

Hope this helps.

Gravelben · Post by **Gravelben** » Fri Nov 20, 2009 6:14 pm

As others have said, I'd only use the good stuff for a turbo vehicle - with my Legacy GTB (2002 so a bit newer than your GT4) even 95 is around 10% thirstier than 98 and makes noticably less power, especially on hot days where the ECU pulls timing back to prevent detonation.

sprsta · Post by **sprsta** » Fri Nov 20, 2009 6:29 pm

ill use at least 95 in any car i own doesnt matter if its the mx5 or the nasty old bluebird it all evens out when you compare milage to cost
however im not too happy when i have to put 95 into the mx due to its turboness and high compression i usually hang out for 98 when i can

Quidam · Post by **Quidam** » Fri Nov 20, 2009 8:38 pm

This is all good stuff, and definately shows up my ignorance on this subject.

Speaking of ignorance, I normally buy from Caltex, the techron engine cleaning marketing thingy made me think it was agood fuel choice -but isn't the best they offer 95? Should I be going to PB instead?

sprsta · Post by **sprsta** » Fri Nov 20, 2009 8:56 pm

i aim for mobil
i think its cheaper than bp ultimate but seems to to the same job
its just the closest station to me

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