What'd you do to your car this week/weekend?

chris · Post by **chris** » Wed Oct 10, 2012 3:09 pm

Well, surely the lug nuts still should have lasted more than 4 days? O.o

Furai · Post by **Furai** » Wed Oct 10, 2012 3:11 pm

Hopefully they will help you in good faith. I have been running my Watanabes (72ID)without hub ring locators, the only thing they do Is take the load off the stubs but they should work without them(I have done a Gymkhana with them like this). I usually would buy some for my wheels but after buying bits for my suspension Im a bit strapped for cash.

In sky high news, I fitted my rear springs. On the way to get the perches turned down I went along Lonely track with my old springs and smashed so hard my head hit the roof(3Kg). Once I fitted the new springs I went back along the same road preparing for serious injuries and surprisgnly the ride was firm but smooth! Just goes to show the correct valving with the spring makes a huge difference.

But she sits real high all round now... But I have figured out how to lower her and it will be done in due time. Hopefully I can find some NB tophats soon.

13r · Post by **13r** » Wed Oct 10, 2012 3:19 pm

Furai · Post by **Furai** » Wed Oct 10, 2012 3:33 pm

I think its higher than when it was stock....

Mr. Shine · Post by **Mr. Shine** » Wed Oct 10, 2012 3:48 pm

Furai wrote:Hopefully they will help you in good faith. I have been running my Watanabes (72ID)without hub ring locators, the only thing they do Is take the load off the stubs but they should work without them(I have done a Gymkhana with them like this). I usually would buy some for my wheels but after buying bits for my suspension Im a bit strapped for cash.

I don't want to come across harshly or rudely, but I think this is completely the wrong attitude to have.

Firstly, Supercheap Auto have zero obligation to help at all as the issue was nothing to do with the wheel nuts supplied.

Secondly, this should be a clear example of why locating rings are so important. The weight of the car should be resting from hub to wheel center hole. The wheel studs are simply not intended or designed to take the weight of the car, and in clear contrast to what you say, they obviously should not work without locating rings.

Of course, the risk is one's own to take, but this should be a lesson for anyone with aftermarket wheels.

chris · Post by **chris** » Wed Oct 10, 2012 3:50 pm

So.... even though the shop I brought my wheels from told me I didn't need the locator rings... I am still fucked?

Furai · Post by **Furai** » Wed Oct 10, 2012 3:51 pm

Mr. Shine wrote:
Furai wrote:Hopefully they will help you in good faith. I have been running my Watanabes (72ID)without hub ring locators, the only thing they do Is take the load off the stubs but they should work without them(I have done a Gymkhana with them like this). I usually would buy some for my wheels but after buying bits for my suspension Im a bit strapped for cash.
I don't want to come across harshly or rudely, but I think this is completely the wrong attitude to have.

Firstly, Supercheap Auto have zero obligation to help at all as the issue was nothing to do with the wheel nuts supplied.

Secondly, this should be a clear example of why locating rings are so important. The weight of the car should be resting from hub to wheel center hole. The wheel studs are simply not intended or designed to take the weight of the car, and in clear contrast to what you say, they obviously should not work without locating rings.

Of course, the risk is one's own to take, but this should be a lesson for anyone with aftermarket wheels.

I can understand that and I know they are important, Im just saying that I have had no issues with mine. Im mearly stating a fact, I do not like to run without them but I dont have much of a choice at the moment.

Also hub rings are also sold in a rubber type plastic which would not take a huge amount of weight, would you consider these useless?

Angreal · Post by **Angreal** » Wed Oct 10, 2012 3:59 pm

Furai wrote:

In a way I'm kind of jealous of your car atm... I keep bottoming out on things as I forget the car is lower than it used to be

I see you're going for the stealth/undercover look for your car... That way no one will suspect that it will handle well

Mr. Shine · Post by **Mr. Shine** » Wed Oct 10, 2012 4:03 pm

chris wrote:So.... even though the shop I brought my wheels from told me I didn't need the locator rings... I am still fucked?

Oh, I'd assumed they were bought second hand.You might have a case against the shop you bought the wheels from if they told you they weren't required.

I'd be going back and talking to them, certainly.

Furai wrote:I can understand that and I know they are important, Im just saying that I have had no issues with mine. Im mearly stating a fact, I do not like to run without them but I dont have much of a choice at the moment.

There's no problem with you saying you haven't had an issue, but when you say something like "you should be fine without them" that's not a fact, because in the circumstances... well, it's obviously not fine. The seller told Chris the same thing and look where he is now.

Also hub rings are also sold in a rubber type plastic which would not take a huge amount of weight, would you consider these useless?

If there were mass stories of the rings snapping under the weight I might give that idea some credit, but I believe they're there to bridge the gap and transfer the weight from hub to wheel centre, not to provide any real structural support as such.

Furai · Post by **Furai** » Wed Oct 10, 2012 4:03 pm

Mr.Shine, you are saying that the studs shouldnt take the weight but the studs didnt fail did they Chris?

The nuts would be taking the normal forces in a sideways motion even without hub rings. If the studs had failed I could understand but its the nuts that failed isnt it?

Angreal dont be jealous I now sit at the same height as all the cars around me

chris · Post by **chris** » Wed Oct 10, 2012 4:05 pm

Sweet, I will chuck the shop an email.

As this is like my baby, I decided to buy all the parts new (unless I found star sharks) sooo at least now I have something to go with!

Mr. Shine · Post by **Mr. Shine** » Wed Oct 10, 2012 4:15 pm

Furai wrote:Mr.Shine, you are saying that the studs shouldnt take the weight but the studs didnt fail did they Chris?

The nuts would be taking the normal forces in a sideways motion even without hub rings. If the studs had failed I could understand but its the nuts that failed isnt it?

Ordinarily the hubs and studs both assist in locating the wheel and dispersing the weight of the car; without the wheels being hub-centric, the studs were insufficient and the nuts will have taken more force than they're meant to.

It's well known that wheels are meant to be hub-centric or have locator rings attached. This is the reason why.

You're trying to say the nuts were still at fault, but the fact is they were used in an improper manner without hub locator rings.

chris · Post by **chris** » Wed Oct 10, 2012 4:16 pm

Mr. Shine wrote:
Furai wrote:Mr.Shine, you are saying that the studs shouldnt take the weight but the studs didnt fail did they Chris?

The nuts would be taking the normal forces in a sideways motion even without hub rings. If the studs had failed I could understand but its the nuts that failed isnt it?
Ordinarily the hubs and studs both assist in locating the wheel and dispersing the weight of the car; without the wheels being hub-centric, the studs were insufficient and the nuts will have taken more force than they're meant to.

It's well known that wheels are meant to be hub-centric or have locator rings attached. This is the reason why.

Thinking about it does make sense.. Ultimate facepalm moment right now :'(

Post by **jif** » Wed Oct 10, 2012 4:23 pm

a quick bit of google-fu says the hubcentric rings are mostly for the older flat (non-conical) nuts.http://forum.miata.net/vb/archive/index ... 34069.html

true story - my '96 turbo and TE37's ran without the centering rings for quite a few years. No incidents...

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Euen · Post by **Euen** » Wed Oct 10, 2012 4:23 pm

Save that face palm until you find out what really happened. There is a lot of speculation and helpful suggestion being provided but until an engineer looks at it and determines what actually failed it is all just speculation.

Snapfrozen · Post by **Snapfrozen** » Wed Oct 10, 2012 4:27 pm

I'm with Mr Shine, I would be hitting up the shop who told you that you won't need them.

Argue it to the grave with them, they should've told you to run them.

tomtikki · Post by **tomtikki** » Wed Oct 10, 2012 4:31 pm

Don't go admitting fault bro, hell, just play the "I know nothing" card.
That's why you bought new, for a new product and the service that goes with it.

chris · Post by **chris** » Wed Oct 10, 2012 4:32 pm

I'm going to be a ricer.. I have no idea what "hub centric" means if he asks

I will discuss it with the old man tonight and draft up an email

Furai · Post by **Furai** » Wed Oct 10, 2012 4:49 pm

Euen wrote:Save that face palm until you find out what really happened. There is a lot of speculation and helpful suggestion being provided but until an engineer looks at it and determines what actually failed it is all just speculation.

This is a good idea, none of us(That I know of) are qualified to make any judgement especially without seeing the damage first hand.

Even though I may think Im an engineer

Angreal · Post by **Angreal** » Wed Oct 10, 2012 5:05 pm

chris wrote:I'm going to be a ricer.. I have no idea what "hub centric" means if he asks

I will discuss it with the old man tonight and draft up an email

Hub centric? Nah my car doesn't have hub caps

siren676 · Post by **siren676** » Wed Oct 10, 2012 6:11 pm

wtf is a hub?

Angreal · Post by **Angreal** » Wed Oct 10, 2012 6:15 pm

Furai wrote:
Euen wrote:Save that face palm until you find out what really happened. There is a lot of speculation and helpful suggestion being provided but until an engineer looks at it and determines what actually failed it is all just speculation.
This is a good idea, none of us(That I know of) are qualified to make any judgement especially without seeing the damage first hand.

Even though I may think Im an engineer

I'm an engineer

just this is not my field of expertise so my opinion doesn't really mean too much tbh.

last_resort14 · Post by **last_resort14** » Wed Oct 10, 2012 7:16 pm

Just read the last couple pages, trying to figure put what happened.
Obviously your wheel cane off , did the wheel nuts come undone, the studs break off, the thread strip off the nuts, or the thread strip off the studs ?

Snapfrozen · Post by **Snapfrozen** » Wed Oct 10, 2012 9:06 pm

Basically to summarise - He got new wheels and new lug nuts. Nuts were correct design (Wheels and lugs both flat edged). Wheels weren't hubcentric and no centring rings were on them. Lug nuts stripped completely on all 4 at about 50km/h and the wheel came off

WideOpenThrottle · Post by **WideOpenThrottle** » Thu Oct 11, 2012 8:08 am

So why only one wheel came off? i would have thought all four would be loose as well then?

What'd you do to your car this week/weekend?

What'd you do to your car this week/weekend?

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