super/turbo charging and insurance

jeff · Post by **jeff** » Wed Mar 19, 2003 5:12 pm

I had the same quandry, as I'm sure others have too. In my case it was made worse by having little insurance history, which is what happens when you go overseas and disappear from their financial radar for a coupla years!

Anyway. Spoke to my insurance agent who OK'd it although I did have to fit an alarm complying with the latest standards. Dual immobilisers etc. Needs a WOF+rego obviously, and being >25 yrs old helps :p I'm squeaking by without a low-volume cert so far, but thinking it would be worthwhile getting a paid written opinion one way or the other... "just in case"

Paying ~$1100 comprehensive thru NZI (only 1yr of ins. history , sadly ): The alarm was about half that. The perma-grin is *priceless* !!

Anyone else want to chime in ?

What year and system are you considering?

Jeff

Grant Schou <Grant.Schou@fonterra.com> wrote:Hello, I am considering fitting a super/turbo charger to my car but I am having trouble getting insurance quotes. Any suggestions on who I should contact for this and does anyone else have insurance for such a beast - if so, how did you get it ? and at what price

Thanks

Grant Schou
Waikato

Grant Schou · Post by **Grant Schou** » Wed Mar 19, 2003 5:17 pm

Hello, I am considering fitting a super/turbo charger to my car but I am having trouble getting insurance quotes. Any suggestions on who I should contact for this and does anyone else have insurance for such a beast - if so, how did you get it ? and at what price

Thanks

Grant Schou
Waikato

Mathew · Post by **Mathew** » Wed Mar 19, 2003 5:20 pm

I have a supercharged mx5 and have insurance through AON Risk Services (a broker). Because of the superchargers added performance, and the fact that all the mods mean the value of the car is more than an average mx5 of its age (1991), mainstream insurers refuse to insure it. I pay about $800 for a car insured at $18,000 which is about what I used to have to pay to insure an almost standard $9000 Honda CRX a few years ago when I was under 25. It is still an unpleasant time when I come to pay the premiums though!!. One thing that helped was over ten years of insurance history with AON before I bought the car. The only way to get good insurance is to be a 50+ year old female driving a 1300cc car in some backwater town. If you are a young male, living in a large city, with a modified car you have to be prepared to part with a fortune for the "privilege" of insurance.
Ray Smith used to have two supercharged mx5's insured through a mainstream company, but he neglected to inform them of the mods, so when he wrote off one of them they refused to continue to insure the other supercharged car so he ended up selling the supercharger off it (or so I'm lead to believe). He was probably bloddy lucky that they paid out on the wrecked one.

M@
also in Waikato

SLYDIT · Post by **SLYDIT** » Wed Mar 19, 2003 7:45 pm

I find it somewhat confusing that my insurance
company is quite happy to insure me for a wrx or
lancer evo, but mention turbo mx5 and they run for
cover.(Or lack of). Where are the decent insurance
companies with people who actually know cars. AMI
wouldnt insure my girlfriend to drive my falcon wagon
even though she had driven one in rush hour Sydney
traffic for three years... Go figure
Glenn

lou Girardin · Post by **lou Girardin** » Thu Mar 20, 2003 8:24 am

I've got my MX with JRSC insured for $15000 through Heath Lambert @ $500 pa.
It is a group scheme though and I am an old fart too! Still, age does have
some benefits.
With JRSC systems, it does pay to point out that it's a factory approved
conversion, as done by Mazdaspeed Japan, and as such does not require
certification and may help when insuring it. Try and avoid NZI.
Lou

jeff · Post by **jeff** » Thu Mar 20, 2003 10:28 am

That's the same argument that can be used for turbosystems too - the BBR 'factory' system that was sold in the UK being the happy loophole for turbo'd MX5s.

Course it depends on the degree of empathy the WOF guy has - helps if you know the right guy, and have the right documented proof! ie - that this "factory" special did not come out with bigger brakes, or weigh more etc etc. The Aussie SP is a good example as well - no brake upgrades required.

All I can say is it's a relief not to have the emissions/OBD shenanigans that the US guys deal with!

Jeff

lou Girardin · Post by **lou Girardin** » Fri Mar 21, 2003 7:33 am

Only if the turbo is the same spec.
Lou

Clive Granger · Post by **Clive Granger** » Sun Mar 23, 2003 8:26 pm

Ring the National Auto Club 0800 501 508. They will insure just about
anything (Modded street cars, Hot Rods, Turbo'd MX-5s etc)

Clive Granger · Post by **Clive Granger** » Sun Mar 23, 2003 9:06 pm

Actually I don't think that argument has ever really worked here. About the
only engine mod you do NOT need to get certified is decreasing the engine
power. While saying that however, I never had any trouble getting WOF's for
my supercharged 5 at a "sympathetic" garage but I never dared a WOF testing
station. Once a failed WOF is entered into the computer you HAVE to fix the
problem.
You can make changes to the air intake and exhaust (my insurance company
didn't mind a slightly larger bore exhaust pipe at 2.5" but were touchy
about replacing the exhaust headers ).

If you get the vehicle LVVC'd make sure you have good brakes. While they do
not test the car's braking ability from speeds above 100kph they repeat the
exercise multiple times. The car has to stop within the given distance each
time with no fade (don't know how many times they repeat it but it comes out
as a pretty severe test). Cost was $600 plus $20 (I think) for each 'item'
tested. They will test everything that has been modified including lowered
suspension, exhaust, roll/style bars.

Point to note: Style bars are actual treated just the same as roll bars.
Often low impact accidents can cause severe head injuries when contact is
made with the bar. Don't think the excuse "It's behind the seat " will wash
either; it's surprising where the body can end up in a violent stopping
manoeuvre.

Clive

darryl · Post by **darryl** » Mon Mar 24, 2003 10:03 am

I haven't been reading a lot of this topic in dattail, but how old are some of
you guys that are having trouble with insurance? and how bad are your driving
records?
We are insured with NZI, we have no issues with out insurance with our
Rotaries. We rang up to inform the insurance company that we had fitted a
supercharger to our RX-7, no worries, its fully covered. everything we have
done to the car is covered, the only time anything changed, that was our
excess when we made it handle better, ie we lowered it.
My Cosmo, big bore exhaust, tints 19" wheels etc, all fully insured. And both
at very good prices too and both these cars have been insured in full from
before we were even 25.
I would say being in Matamata and now Morrinsville probably helps, and well,
pay out time is when you find out how well covered you realy are I guess. The
Cosmo was brken into last X-mas and a number of items stolen, got insurance no
worries but that wasn't an accident. I hope I never have to find out.
I just thought you guys appear to be having a lot of trouble for not a lot of
mods. I mean, you cant even change your headers Clive???

Darryl.

SLYDIT · Post by **SLYDIT** » Mon Mar 24, 2003 5:58 pm

Darryl:

Do you have your insurance through your business?
It seems if you own a business you can insure just
about anything in with every thing else. However for
us mortals who have the standard 3 policy cover its
hell. I have a perfect driving record(touch wood) and
still AMI want to argue every point, they initially
refused cover on my standard mx5 saying it was a
"sportscar" and they have a high crash rate(cough
cough). I wish the club could get a group cover thing
going but every one has their own interests when it
comes to cover. Now AMI dropped the market value with
hardtop down to below what a shagged out car with no
Htop is going for, so i had to spend $100 getting
valuations,and now they say that its an agreed value
policy and will charge me extra for the privilage.
boy itll be fun when the turbo goes on. M@ whats the
name of your broker??

nmr · Post by **nmr** » Mon Mar 24, 2003 6:08 pm

hell. I have a perfect driving record(touch wood) and
still AMI want to argue every point,

I have a crap driving record but I haven't claimed on my car
insurance in more than a decade and I am no longer a spring
chicken. AMI insures my 5 without a
blink.=============================
Mark Roberts nmr@iprohome.co.nz
027 663 4224 09 520 7075
=============================

Grant · Post by **Grant** » Mon Mar 24, 2003 6:41 pm

AMI insured mine with no problems as well.
I rang them before I bought it.
They asked me the value, how many doors, engine capacity, make model and
year. That was it. No worries about it being a convertible, and no worries
with soft top cover. All my insurances for property etc are with them, ie.
four vehicles, house and contents. No vehicle claims in the 30 years or so I
have been with them, except for three windscreens. I'm over 50 which would
help. I had no problems getting cover for the MX5 when my 22 year old
daughter was home from London. I think from memory, it cost me $27.00 for
the three months cover for under 25 driver, plus the excess when she was
driving increased from the normal $250.00 to $500.00 for her only.
Being in Blenheim probably helps as well.

Grant.

darryl · Post by **darryl** » Mon Mar 24, 2003 6:44 pm

I don't insure my cars as a buisness, I guess I should look into that though

Post by **zorruno** » Mon Mar 24, 2003 7:10 pm

I wish the club could get a group cover thing
going but every one has their own interests when it
comes to cover.

A couple of brokers have approached me about doing a deal for the club.
I've given all the details about membership numbers, car info etc, and they
have all mysteriously not replied back to me. All talk no action.

refused cover on my standard mx5 saying it was a
"sportscar" and they have a high crash rate(cough
cough).

I think this is bollocks & would like to see the figures. In my opinion,
people that are enthusiastic about their cars crash them less often, have
them better maintained, are better skilled and more aware drivers, and are
less likely to have stuff stolen out of them (who would be silly enough to
leave expensive items on the front seat of an MX5 while parked? I know of
three non convertible drivers who have done that with their laptops -
thinking they were safe with the doors locked... )

People in clubs tend to be "even more" enthusiastic about their cars. There
have not been too many crash incidents in this club. Even minor ones. The
most common problem is soft top slashing. They also must be one of the
least stolen* of the high production cars in the country due to the fact
that they stand out - and even if stolen, probably driven then recovered.
Hi Morven.

H+C+Z

*FWIW, at the moment, the Subaru Legacy Station wagon is the most stolen,
then the Primera I believe.

Troy Willmot · Post by **Troy Willmot** » Tue Mar 25, 2003 1:09 am

Interesting you got cover for your daughter. I've twice applied for quotes
from AMI and the AA and both times have been told flatly that they won't
insure me for an MX5 because I'm under 25.
Of course it is my car rather than my being a named driver on someone elses,
and I do use it all the time so maybe you got it because your daugther was
just visiting.

My car is a stock 1.6 litre except for a slightly upgraded stereo - but
nothing too fancy. I have several years no claims bonus (with another
insurance company), so there is no reason I can see to reject based on mods
or past history etc.

I'm also male, but I doubt that would make that big a difference.

Currently I'm with NZI and for car, insured for $14000 it costs me about
$93 a month, with a $500-$900 excess (depending on specific circumstances).
The excess used to be over $1000, but I turned 21 last year which helped a
little.

Troy

my2cta · Post by **my2cta** » Tue Mar 25, 2003 5:21 pm

My son (aged 21, therefore high risk) was on to AA Insurance last week for
a quote on his Toyota Corolla Levin BZ-G. They won't touch it for an under
25 driver (at 123 kW from a 1600 it is 'too powerful' for a young driver),
but he spent a lot of time on the phone to them to find out what they WOULD
cover him for if he changes to something 'more acceptable'. Naturally he
asked about an MX5. AA said that they will cover all models of MX5 up to
(at least) the 2000 model year (106 kW 1800) for under 25 drivers, which is
contrary to what they told Troy. Perhaps they have changed their mind about
MX5's as they do not seem to be a boy racer car and we all know they aren't
the fastest things on 4 wheels, at least in standard form.

What AA won't do apparently is insure an under 25 driver for ANY car worth
more than $25,000, or any car with more than 4 cylinders (sorry younger
members, you can't insure a Triumph 2000 with AA). They also won't insure
any modifications/accessories worth more than 20% of the car's basic price
and for under 25 drivers won't cover more than 3 non-standard extras (e.g.
alloys, body kit, stereo) regardless of price. That includes factory fitted
extras from the options list that were purchased with the car when it is
new!

However, if you have a standard car and a good record they are pretty cheap
and never seem to question your nominated agreed value. Our 2000 Millennium
Edition with 24000 km on the clock is insured for $34,500, $300 excess, no
under 25 drivers. It costs us $352 per year, last year was $335 for $35,000
value, year before $370 for $36,500 value. Reducing the value insured makes
little difference to the premium either and they swear they will pay out
that much in a total loss too. Our brand new $20,500 Honda Jazz (a mere 61
kW 1300) with 8 km on the clock is $270. AMI quoted us $360 for the Jazz.

Tim Dutton
MY2CTA

Simon Lord · Post by **Simon Lord** » Tue Mar 25, 2003 9:39 pm

Hmm, do you think the AA know how old Kimi Raikkonen is?

Simon

David & Judy Kerr · Post by **David & Judy Kerr** » Tue Mar 25, 2003 10:36 pm

A good idea for you Troy is to ask your parents to insure it and put you
down as a named driver. My son is 17 and was going to be stung $700.00 a
year to cover his Toyota Celica, I took it in and insured it and put him
down as the only named driver and now it only costs him $270.00 a year with
a $500.00 excess if he has an accident, solved.

Dave.

lou Girardin · Post by **lou Girardin** » Wed Mar 26, 2003 8:42 am

They wouldn't insure him, too many accidents. Plus, his car is modified.
Lou

nmr · Post by **nmr** » Wed Mar 26, 2003 7:12 pm

A good idea for you Troy is to ask your parents to insure it and put
you down as a named driver. My son is 17 and was going to be stung
$700.00 a year to cover his Toyota Celica, I took it in and insured it
and put him down as the only named driver and now it only costs him
$270.00 a year with a $500.00 excess if he has an accident, solved.

Cost of significant accident (eg sideswipe of Merc), including broad
sweeping assumptions and guesses, supposing that D&J have 60%
no claims:

$500 excess
?$400 next year for loss of no claims bonus on that car
?$300 the year after that
?$200 the year after that
?$100 the year after that

So that's a total of ?$1,500

Let's assume that both David and Judy have cars, and that the
value of their cars is similar to their son's.

So that's ?$1,000 each lost to no claims bonus,

Making a total cost of ?$3,500 for an accident, instead of ?$1,500.

I guess my point is that the insrance company reduces it from $700
to $270 for a very good reason: the risk is being transferred from
son to parents.

Please disabuse me of any confusion I may be experiencing!

Phil Hopkins · Post by **Phil Hopkins** » Wed Mar 26, 2003 11:08 pm

Vehicle insurance is rated on the age of the main driver. Therefore, for an
under 25yo driver to have such a premium reduced from $700 to $270 suggests
that the insurer believes that the 'main driver' is over 25. In the event of
an incident, if the insurance investigator discovers that the under-25 is
actually the main driver, you can run into problems. They tend to find these
things out as well; by asking your neighbours who drives the car, or why you
have a three car family but the kids only use one of the cars occasionally
etc etc...

It is also irrelevant as to who owns the vehicle; the parents may own it,
but if the kids drive it the most, the premium is supposed to be rated on
them.

Failing to advise the insurer that the 'main driver' is under 25 is a
material fact, which can lead to declinature of a claim. This would not be
fun if the claim was substantial and is probably not worth the savings. What
would you face in a bad situation? Say your son hit a Porsche, or someone on
a pedestrian crossing causing bodily injury, and your insurer investigated
and declined the claim? It could also inhibit securing insurance in the
future - not just for vehicles either. Remembering that failing to disclose
the event to a future insurer also constitutes a material fact.

Also, it is fraud as the insured has profited financially by misrepresenting
the facts.

However, if the insurance company is aware that an under-25yo is the 'main
driver' and they are happy to write low premiums, then that is great.

Hope this helps.

Grant · Post by **Grant** » Wed Mar 26, 2003 11:17 pm

Our son was named as the main driver of the car he uses. AMI suggested we
put it completely in his name, as the costs would be the same. The advantage
being that he will build up a (no) claim record starting immediately so that
he will be in a better position when he finally owns and insures his own car.
The car he is driving is a 1986 Honda City with 200,000k's on the clock!
He's not too keen on this rather un-cool car, but who would want to steal
it? It's not worth much now, but runs very well and costs very little to
run. Insurance is quite cheap. AMI didn't hesitate to replace the rear
windscreen when it got broken recently. No effect on the no claim discount
either, so that covered the premiums for this year!

Grant.

David & Judy Kerr · Post by **David & Judy Kerr** » Thu Mar 27, 2003 5:52 pm

Its only $500.00 if my son has an accident much less, $250.00, if Jude or I
have an accident.

Clive Granger · Post by **Clive Granger** » Thu Mar 27, 2003 9:35 pm

Royal Sun Alliance insured me over the phone when I added the SC. Cost
about $180 more per year as it put the engine size up to the next class.
They don't like you changing the computer either (even re-chipping it) I
don't think there would have been any trouble with the exhaust headers, just
a higher excess that the $250 it was set at.

Who is online